---

Transcript

Intro/Outro: Welcome to the Insurance Leadership Podcast, the podcast designed to bring you perspectives and principles from leaders in the life and health insurance industry. We trust you will enjoy today's episode.

Ryan Eaton: Welcome to another episode of the insurance leadership podcast. I'm Ryan Eaton, your host, and I'm excited to have you with us today. We have Chad Hogan, who is the president of Quotit, one of the nation's largest online enrollment systems in the country, here to be able to talk about ACA quoting and enrollment platforms and tools that agents can use to be able to better help manage their fourth quarter business.

So let's go ahead and jump into it today.

Chad, welcome to the show, buddy.

Chad Hogan: Thank you, Ryan. Glad to be here.

Ryan Eaton: How's everything been your way?

Chad Hogan: You know, we're getting ready for open enrollment. It's been a great year leading up to it. Lots of regulatory changes, both on the ACA side and Medicare. And so we're busy and we're excited. Looking forward to a great open enrollment this year.

Ryan Eaton: Man, that's awesome. Well, look in the intro, I mentioned that you're the president of Quotit, I'd love to kind of give people a little bit more background into you personally, kind of maybe tell us about you, your family for a minute, where you live, all that fun stuff.

Chad Hogan: Yeah, happy to do so. Been with the organization now since early on. So with Quotit since not the very beginning, but it was an early employee in the process. And, you know, have grown with the company, and eventually they they trusted me to run the thing. So, here I am about 20 years later and you know.

Giving it our best every day. We're now part of the Allstate corporation after our prior owner, national general was acquired. National general insurance was acquired by Allstate. And so we're proud to be part of the Goodhands family. I've got my blue shirt on and really enjoying that a little bit about me personally, married.

Four kids two boys, two girls, 14, 12, 10, and eight. And they love baseball, love soccer. So that's what my weekends are filled with when not delving into the health insurance space. We live in a little town outside of Boise, Idaho, by the name of Eagle, Idaho. And so been there for, for a couple of years now.

Prior to that, we were based out of Southern California, Orange County area. So a little bit about myself there. Oh, I love it. Now tell me

Ryan Eaton: this with Quotit. Quotit was previously owned, I believe by Word and Brown back in the day. Is that right?

Chad Hogan: Yeah. So Quotit's gone through a number of kind of organizational ownerships over the years.

So originally when I joined, it was a, as a bootstrap company founded by an insurance agent by the name of David Smithson, who was in the Southern California market and was tired of getting floppy disks. If we remember those from insurance companies with small group rates on it. And so there's gotta be a better way to run group illustrations.

And so started compiling that data from some local carriers in the California market, and that was really the first Quotit product that went to market was a small group quoting platform in the California market. soon expanded in the individual space the under 65 market, and then did a little bit in the med subspace.

Quoteit was then acquired a few years after I joined by Worden Brown as a general agency large, you know, group and individual and Medicare general agency in the California market. We had a really good run there with them for a number of years. And then National General came knocking on the door, National General Insurance owned by the the Carfunkel family there came and knocked on the door of John Word and Rusty Brown and said, Hey, we've, we love what you're doing and we need a platform and we think it's just best if we buy it from you.

And so they did, and we became part of the, the National General family of companies and been a part of supporting much of their growth and initiatives on the individual market. And then most recently as National General was acquired by Allstate. As I mentioned in the intro there, Ryan, we're now part of the the good hands all state family of companies.

Ryan Eaton: Well, what was it like in those beginning days? I know you weren't there at the very beginning, but you were one of the beginning employees. Obviously your system for those people who don't know is, is so robust, does so many different things. And touching so many different carriers and access for all 50 states, I mean, it's just amazing what all you're doing.

What was it like at the beginning getting that set up? I mean, like how many programmers do you have? What did, what was kind of that first thing, Hey, we're doing small group rates in this zip code. I mean, what, how did that expansion work?

Chad Hogan: Well, I mean, our growth was organic, right? We were a bootstrap company, as I mentioned.

So prior to joining Word and Brown, it was really, we grew through organic, right? So we grew through adding additional agencies and customers. We had some early general agencies that jumped on board and said, Hey, we want to do this. We want to offer this service. And this is when RFP, even if it was a five life group.

Right. So, you know, that expansion in the. California market naturally went into individual. Then actually about a year after I joined, I helped kind of lead our charge to expand beyond the state of California. Texas was one of the first ones, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois. We started going through that.

It really became. Doing a road show with the carriers and myself and, and one of our at the time carrier relations manager, we went out and we did a road show and we went, I flew all over the country talking with carriers convincing them that they wanted to trust us. To distribute their health plan data, right?

And keep in mind a lot of this was pre ACA. With the exception of some areas in California, it was a guaranteed issue, right? So there were rating algorithms involved. There was proprietary data that was there. There were NDAs that were, you know, this thick and data embargoes, and it was a whole, a whole different world pre ACA.

And it's an area that we, we knew really well and it served us well as we've continued to expand into ancillary product lines and things like that.

Ryan Eaton: Would you say that was one of your biggest challenges when you guys were getting off the ground is the time it took to go get with each carrier, get the nondisclosures into play, then get them to trust you and build that relationship enough.

I mean, especially when you talk about the blues and each state's kind of got their own or the different carriers that are state specific, that's got, that had to be in a challenge.

Chad Hogan: It absolutely is. And you know, when you're in a market, your greatest advocate are your customers, their, their agents and brokers who you partner with.

And so we often took an approach of finding or working with an agent or broker that had a established place in that market, whether it was in the group market, the Medicare market, and we went to the carrier and said, Hey, we want to do this where a tech company, here's our pedigree. We want to do this to support Ryan's agency, you know, Ryan.

Produced a significant amount of business with that carrier and that carrier was willing to, you know, devote resources to us. So carrier distribution carrier network is Really the key, you know to our success over time now I'll tell you when ACA came along and you start introducing all of the Transparency rules and rate filing rules and those kind of things it really changed Kind of the dynamics in the industry where you can now in essence, just connect to an API from CMS and have a 35 foot, you know, state footprint overnight with all the rates, plans, benefits, product, everything that's there going through some regulatory changes, which is why we still continue to have and really are the only platform that's going to offer that off exchange and ancillary footprint.

In addition to on exchange, because we have those direct relationships with 180 plus carriers representing 300 plus plans in a variety of markets. And so that is, that's part of the value we bring to carriers is that distribution network that we can cover.

Ryan Eaton: Well, that's one of the things I wanted to ask you about as well, was the value that you do bring to carriers.

Obviously you bring distribution because you have so many agents using your platform all over the place, but I have to assume from the carrier standpoint. Also, they love getting clean data from you. They're not getting paper apps that they're having to process. They're getting it electronically.

They're taking it directly into their system. You've scrubbed it to make sure it's clean data. I mean, does that, what do you hear from carriers on that side? Is that one of the big things for them now is how can we get. Get the information in, but also get it clean.

Chad Hogan: Early on, that was a huge advantage for carriers.

They wanted, you know, they wanted electronic enrollment, right. And they were incentivizing brokers. They used to run promos. Hey, 5 for every electronic enrollment you run through. You know, I'm sure you remember some of those days, right? Now it's like, we're going to charge you five bucks for every paper.

I just said that it's, it's kind of, kind of flipped on its head there. But, you know, one of the critical things also that we see for distribution is especially. In ancillary space or other areas where you have a product that's got a compelling value proposition for a consumer and it really meets a need, but a lot of agents aren't aware of that product.

And so we can provide that shelf space for a carrier to put their product out there for it to get in front of an agent. In really kind of a no No hassle way the agent can run a quote and they can see that product compared to other You know other plans in the market and you know If there's either a pricing advantage or a benefit advantage They can see that through our our shopping ui and be able to kind of have a broader stable of products To offer, you know, one of the studies we did a number of years ago looked It's a variety of agents book of business prior to Using Quotit and then after they did and we looked at the concentration and we found that on average agents wrote with 2.

2 carriers Meaning they had a primary carrier they wrote with and they had a backup Right and those were the only two they they wrote and maybe that you know, that point two was A customer asked about something or, you know, they, they had that carrier with a prior employer or whatever the case may be.

Afterwards, we found that book of business diversified by almost 2x and that the agent started writing with on average just under four carriers their business because The product was out there. So You know, that's a double edged sword for us because sometimes we walk into a dominant market where like a blue of north carolina They own the market Right and it's tough to convince them.

Hey, you want to be put up against the other carriers in your market But in an area where you've got a competitive like a california or texas or other markets where it's it's very competitive right we can bring an advantage to that carrier because Agents will look at the product or get the details of that product that they wouldn't normally take the extra steps to do Because all of that rate and benefit information is right in front of them in a single comparison screen versus going out to three or four or five different carriers site.

They're just not going to spend that time. I love

Ryan Eaton: that. And I want to get to that in a minute when we talk about the value to agents, because I do see that as being just a time saver, go to one spot instead of logging into four or five portals. That's, that's huge. You mentioned something a minute ago when you were talking about, you know, ping and CMS.

And be able to get everything. There's a lot of people probably listening to this that are not familiar with APIs and kind of what that process is. If you're like me from Mississippi, you can spell API, but you have no idea what it means, right? So walk us through and kind of let us be able to hear a little bit, but kind of how you access the data through APIs.

Chad Hogan: Yeah. So we're kind of unique. In that sense that we as a from Quotit standpoint, we don't actually leverage the APIs that are made available publicly in the marketplace. And there's a number of reasons for it. One is that most of the data that's made available of an API. And for those that, you know, you just said don't understand exactly what an API is, you can think of it as a machine connection.

to transfer data. API stands for Application Programming Interface. And so that could be as simple as me sending into the CMS computer, here's the demographics of the individual I want to quote for, and then them returning that data back to me. That's not necessarily how some of the CMS APIs work.

They're more, give me the data, and then they send you a big bulk of that data, right? And then you have to kind of figure out and massage it and bring it in. What we have done is we partner directly with the carriers to provide us that data. for two reasons. One, those carriers can often provide us that data earlier than it's available through the the federal APIs.

And two, we can get a richer data set. The data that is filed with CMS uses a certain standardized format, and it's really designed really from a regulatory standpoint first and foremost, not a marketing standpoint. Okay, so There's additional benefit data, additional kind of clarity around the context, because maybe we can support 300 characters or 500 characters in a benefit descriptor versus 150.

So what we can do is we can get a richer data set from the carriers that way. But the tradeoff is that that costs us, right? We have to maintain that data differently. We have a team that does that versus, you know, a variety of connections that can be made to public data sources.

Ryan Eaton: But because you can do that. You can display more information, which would help the consumer or the agent make a better decision on the plan. Is that, did I hear that correctly?

Chad Hogan: Exactly.

Ryan Eaton: Oh, that's awesome.

Chad Hogan: Yeah, so we can, because we can get a richer data set or other things like plan brochures, SPC documents, other kinds of things that having a direct relationship with the carrier can afford us.

Ryan Eaton: So I'm gonna ask you this, kind of teach you a little bit. What is your favorite feature? About your platform. Obviously, you got the ability to be able to grab all the data and pull everything. And, and I'm going to ask you about agent type stuff in a minute, but if you had to say from a development side, maybe from a carrier side, something that you see that you guys feel like you do the best job in the market, what would you say that would be?

Chad Hogan: Yeah, I think where we have really been able to create a competitive advantage for brokers that use our platform is through the use of our consolidated enrollment. And what that really is. Is the ability to have a true e commerce shopping experience where a consumer can select a health plan, a dental plan, a vision plan, an accident critical illness plan, add them all into the cart and complete one enrollment.

Without having to reenter their name five times or answer the same, you know, do you live at this address question five times and bring it through kind of a single streamlined end to end enrollment, where at the end, we're going to transmit that electronically to all five different carriers. But for the agent, they had a single process for the consumer.

They had a singular process And you know if you're talking to a bunch of customers during open enrollment Or you're a call center that's driving on call efficiency or whatever the case may be Again, it comes back to the quoting piece, right? Why would I go to three or four or five different carrier sites when i'm only going to sell two?

Why would I sell a customer? three, four, five products. If it's going to cost me five X at the time. And that's right. So I think kind of a killer app feature is some of our consolidated enrollment capabilities.

Ryan Eaton: Well, too, if even if you're in the small group sector right now, we kind of talked about at the beginning, you mentioned getting the floppy disk for a five man group, but having to go back and back to the carrier, but being able to do that with.

Two or three dental plans, or two or three critical illness plans or two or three, whatever, and be able to put all that data together, then be able to have a streamlined app. You're right, that is a huge value add. So agents who say, Hey, that sounds awesome. What does it take to get them set up? Is it, I know there's a lot of platforms out there in the market, some charge.

monthly fees. Some take part of your commission. Some will give you just referral fees for apps you submit. How does the Quotit process work for that?

Chad Hogan: So we operate as a software as a service, meaning that we're going to charge a license fee on a per user basis for access to our platform. With that, you get access to not only your on exchange, which as you mentioned, there's definitely some out there that offer those capabilities for free or in exchange for a commission or whatever the case may be.

The other piece of it would be you get access to the off exchange market. You get access to the ancillary, the dental division, critical illness, all those other products that can complete it. And really, it's just a simple sign up process online. You get a username, a password. You can go in and you can, in theory, start running quotes.

Now, the Off exchange market ancillary market work a little bit different when you go to enroll not every carrier uses the npn Or some of those things that the federal government standardized as part of the the aca on exchange enrollments, right? So there's a bit of setup where you'll need to provide your writing ids.

We can pull your license numbers and all that data from NIPR and preload some of that data. But there's always going to be a little bit of setup that has to be done. And it's a CRM or agency management. So you'll probably want to import your book of business, import your client data, those kinds of things.

But we have a team that does a one on one with any broker that comes on board. They'll walk them through that implementation, help them get set up and running, and then of course we provide live. toll free support for our brokers to call in and ask questions. I know that's a novel concept. There's, there's a number of, number of entities out there that want to push people to chat or email or open a ticket, but you can actually pick up the phone and call and talk to one of our support individuals who will.

Either walk you through that scenario or help you figure out why what you're trying to do isn't working the way you expect it to.

Ryan Eaton: No, I like that. So, two questions I have around that is, and it's a loaded question because I know every user is different, but if you kind of had to give maybe an average time on, you know, take someone to go in and implement everything, and then what's kind of the time you see to take to get where people get proficient using the system, right?

Because, like... I can sign up for a new bank account, but I might not figure out their bill pay as quickly as I did my other one or something may be different in there. How long does it take to get proficient and then how long does it take to implement on an average?

Chad Hogan: Yeah. So I think from kind of an implementation standpoint, you're, you're probably looking at four to eight hours of, of work again, depending upon how many markets you're in.

Ryan Eaton: Right. Right.

Chad Hogan: If you're in a single market selling just a single insurance type, you're going to be on the lower end. You might even be. An hour, maybe two hours of work. If you're going to sell in 45 states, you've got writing IDs from 15 different carriers, it's going to take a little bit more effort, right?

And then you're going to be on the upper end of that. And you're probably not going to sit down and do that in a, in an eight hour chunk, right? But we have tools, like for example, we have an upload sheet where you can, you know, fill out the data and then just upload it into the system to make it easy to do that.

So it's an investment in your business. And, you know, what we have found is agents that implement and purchase and don't, you know, go in there and implement their information and things, they typically drop off the platform within about 60 to 90 days. And we know, we can look at the statistics, we know how many times they log in, whether they put their data in or not, and they drop off in about 90 days.

The agents that go in, they start adopting, they start implementing, and this kind of gets to your up to speed curve, right? Super simple to run a quote. It's very straightforward process. Those that kind of get past that 90 day. They stay on the platform for years, like, you know, five, six, seven years.

They're a customer on our platform because it becomes a part of their business, no separate than their cell phone or, you know, anything else. It's a way in which they conduct their business and as a mindset in which they conduct their business.

Ryan Eaton: Oh, that's funny you say that because we got a CRM system years ago, probably 10, 12 years ago.

Now we all started using it and we had other CRM companies come to us and talk, Hey, this is what ours does. It's awesome. And there's were way better, but it was one of those things we had already adopted the one system and it was kind of scared of changes like sure, man, the work time to get in. So I could definitely say that once an agent starts using it and is comfortable with it, why would they leave if they can get everything in one one spot?

Chad Hogan: Yeah, and to harken back a little bit to your prior question, you know, in terms of how agents pay for our services and things like that. So we're purely a technology provider. We don't participate in a hierarchy. We don't take commissions. We don't take override. You know, any of those kinds of things. You pay us our monthly fee and our loyalty is to you as the broker.

We don't share that data with anybody. We don't monetize that data in any way. It is your data and it's your client information.

Ryan Eaton: And because of that, the carriers will be paying the agents, the commission, correct? So all that still works the same way. It's just a way of Handling the applications getting it to the carriers for them and then they everything else is the normal process customer service commissions all that.

Chad Hogan: Exactly.

And when you talk about commissions, we've just launched a new product in the commission space because you know In talking with our agents and brokers we found it's an area that is usually the most frustration for them But also the area of the business they pay the least attention to and you would think That you know, it's money coming in the door, but it's it's one of those areas that it's they're doing mental math, right?

And and you know, well, I I know I sold this and my check was x month last month It should be about this month this month and okay Yeah, it all figured out about right The reality is when we actually sat down and started looking at how carriers pay commissions We found on average about 30 percent of the time there is an inaccuracy in the compensation.

Ryan Eaton: Wow

Chad Hogan: It cuts both ways. Yeah Sometimes they pay a little more than they're supposed to yeah, which you know that hey No one's gonna probably pick up the phone and call the carrier But more often than not it cuts the other way and they underpay by a little bit and it's it's usually a clerical or Administrative reason it's not you know Malicious or intentional agents don't have a clean way to capture that.

And so we have spent the last several years developing a really slick commissions reconciliation platform and engine that will be designed to really predict what you as an agent are supposed to earn, you know, not only This month commission cycle, but looking out, you know, 6, 8, 10, 12 months. That's awesome.

Looking at your book of business. What is your persistency? Right versus new business. Are you just churning or you actually growing your book, right? These kind of things if you ask most brokers, they'd go Yeah, yeah, it's growing but if I ask you what are you gonna be paid November of next month based upon your current book your current churn rate and your predicted sell through they'd go Hopefully more.

Yeah, so that's a product that we're super excited about that We've we've rolled out with a number of agencies that are that are really starting to see some some amazing traction on On their commission site.

Ryan Eaton: I didn't have any plan to talk to you about this, but I gotta ask another question on that because that's really I agree with you that I mean most of the time the agents don't see the need to Spend two or three days looking at their commissions and they could be trying to be out selling so having something like this. The value is huge.

Do you have to be currently using? The Quotit platform in its entirety or is this an add in that could work to some other system? How does that how's that process?

Chad Hogan: It's it's designed to play best when we know what's happening I mean like we know when enrollments are happening or sales or transactions However, that being said it is a completely separate standalone capable platform.

So you can Rather than getting automated data feeds from our enrollment system, you'll, you can upload your enrollments or you can grab a file from a carrier site. It'll parse it and bring it into the system, you know, accordingly. So it is, it is something completely separate and aside.

Ryan Eaton: Oh, that's awesome.

Well, look, just a few more questions. I know we're getting close on time here, but can I ask any more about the future from an enrollment standpoint? What, what kind are we looking at? What big changes do you see coming maybe in the next five to 10 years from a technology standpoint? I know we have. AI is kind of really making, I mean, it's been out, but it's really kind of hitting things right now.

What do you see taking place that we may, the average person may not be thinking about?

Chad Hogan: So I think there's, there's probably a couple of trends that we could look at from kind of a future, you know, what are things that look like. One of them I would say is data pre fill. Using third party data sources, whether that is regulatory data from CMS, whether it's things like Blue Button or FLIR or other areas to inform.

The shopping experience and that's going to be around plan recommendation engines, right? And so we're working with some companies that today that are doing some really cool things around mashing up our health plan data with claims data, PBM data, and throwing kind of an AI model behind it to, in essence, kind of give a bell curve fit of plans for a consumer.

And I think that's going to be a disruptive technology for agents specifically because the majority of sales we know are done by agents today. And the consumers pick up the phone and they talk to an agent that's a trusted advisor who knows their scenario, right? Who knows their background, knows their history, knows, you know, where they've been with the last couple years and can make a plan recommendation, right?

And, and there's been a number of attempts over the years to, you know, disintermediate the broker. Whether it's on the group side or the individual market through things like plan recommendation, the reason we've partnered with these companies is because they have really focused on it as a broker empowerment tool.

One of them once and specifically is actually huge in the fintech side and doing risk management around investments and the way that they've used external data and AI to. Profile risk. Well, ultimately insurance is a risk hedge. And so looking at things from an investment standpoint, along with insurance to say, how do we best position your risk hedging?

And so I think that's an area that we're going to see some really cool things coming on in the next, you know, five to 10 years.

Ryan Eaton: Yeah. I had another question, even two on that from, you know, risk from agents. And I think you had a great one right there. I mean, you can use AI and the technology and everything else and.

It can look at all the data and process it instantly and give a better recommendation. I mean, it is, you, you have to be up on the technology and be using it to be able to stay, stay in front of the customer. Cause if you don't have that, it puts you at a negative advantage, you know? So I appreciate you saying that.

Go ahead. You were saying something that

Chad Hogan: I'm going to say is a positive, I think for the agent community where technology can enhance productivity, bring a better consumer experience. The other side of it is, you know, what I'll call kind of a cautionary tale. Of where some technology is going and we've already seen this from the regulatory standpoint on medicare this year where you know, call recording requirements coming in I believe ultimately we'll see a convergence of much of the medicare regs with the aca regs so that in essence It's the same whether you're enrolling a over or under 65 individuals.

Yep right now is call recordings Very quickly on that, he will be transcription and behind that, it's going to be sentiment analysis and keyword matching to ensure that from a sales process, things were compliant, the words that were used, they'll start red flagging from an agent perspective, I do believe that those calls are going to have to start being, you know, Randomly pulled and they're going to go through a sentiment engine like a clear bridge or something like that to specifically score a call.

And I believe agents are going to start being scored on their interactions, especially in the ACA market, the Medicare market, and those kind of things from a AI standpoint before it was, hey, we're going to pull one or two or two calls. I believe within the next five to 10 years, we're going to be in a world where every call is transcribed, every call is sentiment analyzed, and every call is scored.

And regulatory actions will either be taken or not based upon an agent scoring.

Ryan Eaton: Wow. That's something. So basically, every call will have to be recorded, it will be transcribed. And that transcription will be monitored by an AI device of some sort that then goes back and scores you as the agent one to ten on if you handled that call correctly, said the right thing, make sure you didn't use a word like it's the best plan or something along those lines.

And then you'll have a score maybe tied to your name with CMS on, on how you do from an aroma standpoint. Did I understand that correct? Wow.

Chad Hogan: That's where, that's where I believe we will start to see it go. And now that, that may, may sound a little bit farfetched, but, but I think that is where we're going to start seeing things go from a regulatory oversight standpoint.

Ryan Eaton: My compliance officer would love to hear that.

Chad Hogan: Right? It's the trade off, right? You've got the agent on the other side going, no, I don't want that. Regulatory compliance officer going, yes, please. Yeah.

Ryan Eaton: Well, look, kind of thinking last question here, kind of thinking about the future and obviously you guys are already doing this, but from a paper enrollment standpoint, are you seeing in the next five to 10 years, paper enrollments being gone with majority of carriers or what do you see on that front?

Chad Hogan: Yeah. So I think, because the way that certain regulations are written, you know, to handle unbanked or non compute populations, we're still going to continue to see paper apps. They're going to exist. Carriers, I think, will begin, especially in the markets they can control, off exchange, those kind of things, mandating, dictating.

You know, those types of enrollments, I think another area that it will be a long curve before we get there. We'll certainly be that group market, you know, where you've got, you've got the 500 guys at the steel plant working, they're going to fill out a paper app and turn it into their HR team. And that's, it's going to be that way.

I think for a while, just because the nature of. The environment. That's right. And you know, what is the last census, 54 over 54 percent of Americans still receive coverage or they receive coverage through their employer. So, you know, individual market off exchange. Yeah, I can see that going on Medicare.

Absolutely. They're going to start pushing there eventually. But I think for, for a lot of them, they're, they're still always going to be that paper as an option.

Ryan Eaton: Well, I can tell you for us, everything you said. 100 percent accurate, even for kind of how we see it as well as individual right now, we're requiring all of our individual applications to come in electronically.

However, when it comes to groups, we allow paper on all that and, you know, different processing requirements. So, and it just makes sense for a 20, 30 policy, you can't have that much paper and mail or your percentage of costs starts going up so drastically for individual policies where it's different with groups.

So will Chad, man, anything else you want to say before we kind of wrap up the call day? You nailed it, man. I sure did like this.

Chad Hogan: All right. I appreciate the time to chat with you here and share a little bit about what we do and how we help support agents, carriers, and even a few minutes there at the end to stare into the crystal ball.

And so I, I appreciate the time. Right.

Ryan Eaton: Thank you, Chad. Well look for everyone on the podcast today. We thank you so much for listening and remember a good plan today is better than a great plan months from now. Thank you very much.

Intro/Outro: Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Insurance Leadership podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you'll be notified of future episodes or stream online at insuranceleadershippodcast.com.