Revolutionizing Insurance

Season 3 Episode 38

Revolutionizing Insurance with Chad Hogan

Season 3 Episode 38


Revolutionizing Insurance

Welcome to the Insurance Leadership Podcast, the podcast designed to bring you perspectives and principles from leaders in the life and health insurance industry. We trust you will enjoy today's episode.

Ryan Eaton: Welcome back to the Insurance Leadership Podcast, today we have Chad Hogan with Quotit on the podcast. He is going to be hitting on AI and how it's going to be changing our industry, this is definitely an episode you do not want to miss. With that, let's go ahead and jump in. Chad, thanks for being on the show today, man. 

Chad Hogan: Thanks for having me, Ryan. 

Ryan Eaton: Second round, you're back here again. I must've said something right there. 

Chad Hogan: That's right. 

Ryan Eaton: I'm right. We had several different people that were bringing up last time we talked towards the end we got into more kind of the AI side. And as in the industry, there's so much stuff that we don't know and it's still new and how does it apply with insurance, and so it got all the discussion started we said, I said, I gotta get Chad on here again so we thank you. Give the people who might not have listened to last episode. Give your background. What got you into the industry and then also give your kind of background with COVID if you don't mind. 

Chad Hogan: Absolutely. Third generation in the insurance industry. My grandfather, my father, and now me. Now, I don't sell insurance, but certainly we support technology for insurance agents. Always had a passion for technology. And I think that became the intersection of how I ended where I'm at from a technology standpoint with Quotit AgentCube, our agency management platform, and now our new commissions platform and I think the 2 passions came together, nurture and nature, right? Nature being insurance was born into it, and I've always been a fan of technology. There's a kind of an old joke that no one ever graduates college and says, I'm going to be an insurance agent, but they figure it out and it's a great industry. And so from a technology standpoint with Quote it going on 20 years in the technology space, and watch the evolution from quoting being a novelty to now it's ubiquitous, right? The online enrollment it's a requirement if you're a carrier and you don't have that capability. Your products aren't being sold anymore. It's been a fun evolution and I think there's some really fun technology coming our way. We've got a new crop of agents that are coming in from the ones that have now graduated college, they had their first job and they've now ended up in the insurance industry. And they're realizing that there is there's a whole world out there, that has not yet adopted what many other industries have. And so I think that's pushing technology vendors, it's pushing carriers. That's all a good thing and so I'm excited to talk about what we see from a future standpoint, where we think the industry is going from a technology standpoint and again, happy to be here.

Ryan Eaton: For those who don't know who Quotit is, give a quick background because I know previously it was Nat Chin, now Allstate, a lot of stuff going on there too. Give a little 30 second overview on that as well. 

Chad Hogan: So in the 20 year span that I've been with the company, I've had six different paychecks, but I've had the same job. And so Quotit is a technology provider for the health insurance industry. And so started off in the group benefit space, still have a huge presence in the group quoting market in California and a few other states. Branched into the individual market and then into Medicare and ancillary and really, I look at Quotit and some of our other supporting products is, we're the only single source supplier of quoting and enrollment in the insurance industry. There are point solutions whether you're looking for medicare, there's vendors that focus on medicare. If you're focused on ACA there's vendors that are focused on ACA. There's really not no one in the off exchange or ancillary market to bring all that together, but we've brought together on and off exchange under and over 65 Medicare Advantage, as well as the ancillary products in a single agent and agency distribution platform. That is,

Ryan Eaton: I did not realize you guys were the only one touching all the pieces of the pie, so to say, to be able to help people according to them.

Chad Hogan: And that's for those agencies that have diversified their product line. I said I can't be a single source commission, especially with the new Medicare rules coming down potentially. Wanting to diversify the portfolio there, having all those options for the consumers. It's a great tool.

Ryan Eaton: Oh, that's awesome. Let's jump into some of that types. I want today to speak more futuristic. AI, what's in planning? What's in thought? What's looking forward, we were even before the podcast hitting some of the different things that are coming out from legislation type stuff. I know nothing's 100 percent yet, but maybe we can hit on that. What are you guys doing from a standpoint of trying to use AI? Or other technology to make the broker or the consumer's experience better from a Quotit standpoint, from that technology, what are you doing to try to help improve that experience?

Chad Hogan: Yeah, so I think there's a couple of ways that we're looking at it. Large language models seems to be the fit that AI has found like a chat GPT or things like that, where you're consuming large amounts, written material, and then through neural networks and other things being able to disseminate that and create a kind of a common output, right? So that's large language models seems to be where a lot of kind of the things are going there. The other piece of it is automation, right? So if you look at what Microsoft's done with our co pilot product recently, where you can go in and I can tell Excel, go do, create this type of chart. And it translates that language model into an activity, right? I used that the other day for, creating a workflow chart that I needed to do, and I had all the data and I said, give me this kind of model, this kind of chart. Chugged on it for 30 seconds or so and gave me three or four options and says, which of these do you like? That was two hours worth of Excel work, just a year or two ago. So we're looking at those two things, large language models and process automation, from an AI standpoint, how can we bring that to the insurance industry? So from a large language model we're looking at carrier benefits, and we're looking at how do we start doing analysis around plan comparison and value of plan to premium? So that, we're almost creating a pseudo actuarial value of the plan to present and say, Hey, this plan has a richer benefit set on the whole, than maybe this plan. But this plan from a premium standpoint is 20% less. And not necessarily tell the consumer or the broker what to buy but to present comparative data to help the consumer or the broker better make a decision for what plan to buy and what's the right fit. So I think that's around the large language model. Around the process automation piece is there's a lot of inefficiencies in the broker payment, hierarchy management, and contracting processes. It's a huge overhead for a lot of agencies. 

Ryan Eaton: That's right. 

Chad Hogan: And so being able to take and do some process automation around gathering data, filling out forms, those kinds of things to make that process simple. We've always been able to do one field mapping. But being able to quickly and accurately adapt to like, for example, reading a commissions agreement, and pulling out what are the percentages that should be paid versus the agent having to try and figure out to load into, our commissions platform. I upload my commission doc and it's all there and it consumes that and then fills in the values appropriately. So those are just some examples of things and we haven't even started to talk about sentiment analysis, compliance management around call recording and all of those kinds of things, which we touched a little bit on the last call but there's some really exciting technology out there. 

Ryan Eaton: We were talking a little bit about some of the regs, right? Hit some of that type stuff. What could potentially be, some of the stuff that's recently come out and how that could impact that process

Chad Hogan: Yeah. So I think, if I were to pull together a couple of salient regs that have come out from various parts of whether it's FCC on some of the one to one lead gen rules, whether it is the new Medicare compensation rules that are being proposed, it's the new WBE or web broker regs that just got or guidance, I should say. It's not regs, guidance that was released a couple of weeks ago. CMS and the agencies are definitely looking at the insurance industry with a critical eye. They've heard consumer complaints around lead gen, obviously the FCC stepped in. And put a big kibosh on that one, right? They've seen the I want to say excess in the medicare compensation side as a lot of agents pivoted back and forth there, right? and now they're looking at how data is presented to consumers around the shopping experiences and those kind of things and so if you really look at that, I think they're literally trying to address everything from legion through the enrollment process and into the compensation, right? They're putting their foot in the entire 

Ryan Eaton: You're touching the whole thing.

Chad Hogan: You're touching the whole thing And, I think this is an opportunity for agencies to really, I don't call it step up their game, but differentiate themselves in operating with vendors, in operating whether it's on the lead gen side, quoting and enrollment side compensation side. Align themselves with companies that also have a very compliant philosophy. Because that's going to ultimately reduce the burden there. The other side of it is agents need to be vocal and be active, right? There's a number of trade groups out there, but these are things that are near and dear to our hearts, we respond to CMS for comments, right? And it's a really cool process. If you've never responded and seen your words Quotit back to you in a regulatory process, you're like, Oh, okay. I can actually have an impact. 

Ryan Eaton: I have a voice here. That's right. 

Chad Hogan: More so than anything, especially what we've seen on the CMS side, is they are very open to industry feedback. They want to talk to brokers. They want to talk to agencies, they want to talk to carriers. And I do believe that in many cases they're trying to better the process from a consumer experience, right? They are trying to make it better. That may not create the best broker experience but I do believe that from a regulatory standpoint, a lot of what I've seen is driving toward that better consumer experience, which I think at the end of the day, all of us agree, oh, things like lead gen had to be cleaned up.

Ryan Eaton: I agree. 

Chad Hogan: Websites, rogue websites that just grab health plan data and start publishing it without any, a hundred percent, any tie to it. 

Ryan Eaton: That's right. 

Chad Hogan: These are the kind of things that these regulations are meant to step in on. 

Ryan Eaton: So if a broker wanted to come in and make a comment and respond to a ring, we have a team that does that at our office, but I've never been involved in the process. I'm asking even for me to. What would that look like? How would you even go about that? Is it posted on CMS and you can actually go in there and give comments based off that? 

Chad Hogan: So there's a site called the Federal Register, where all regulatory agencies publish new regulations. And you can go in and sign up for an alert when, for example, I look at CCIO, Center for Consumer Insurance Information Oversight, the ones that manage the federal health care system. Anytime a new reg is published by them or new guides, I get an email or I get a message that says, Hey, there's a new guidance been published. And what will happen is at the top paragraph of every one of those regulations, it'll say, here's the person who wrote this rec, like name. Phone number, email. And here's where you respond for comments. And then you go in and you go back through regulations. gov and you publish your comments. They become public record. 

Ryan Eaton: Yep, they're there.

Chad Hogan: They're there, anyone can see them. But it's very transparent and you can publish your comments in there. And they've done a really good job of making a simple process to get people to comment.

Ryan Eaton: I was just about to say, for a federal government, that sounds like it's about as easy of a process as it could be. 

Chad Hogan: Yeah. And we've had conversations with regulators about, do you read it? How much do you read it? Those kinds of things and they said, there's two types of responses that they get. They get the form letters, where you've got an entity that's campaigning and they basically attachment and they count those. And they say, we had, this type of sentiment come in from 300 constituents, right? And then they have individual unique letters, right? And those count as one, but they look at the common themes and those kinds of things, and when you go in and look at the regulations, it'll say some individuals commented or some feedback was right? And it's actually called the preamble and the regulations and every new break that's published, it addresses almost every comment that comes in that it was unique in its theme. They address and they respond to and it's really a very involved process, if you go look at it, some people think this is arbitrary and a random rule that came up, but you can go in there, you can see the thought process, you can see everything that's there. 

Ryan Eaton: How often do you say different rulings come out or not rulings, but suggested regulations come out?

Chad Hogan: So every year, for example, on the federal marketplace, there is a product plan parameters for the new year that comes out, right? Every year you get a new set of rules, right? And there's comment periods and things like that and then you get a final rule, usually 60 days later. Sometimes 30, sometimes 90, depending upon how they file it but so there's an annual for that. Other times we get updated guidance, which is just, they see something and they have regulatory authority to address it.

Ryan Eaton: Change. 

Chad Hogan: And they change it. They check the box and the they change the rules. Guidance is just that. It's an expectation of how things work and you better adhere to it. 

Ryan Eaton: Don't cross our line. 

Chad Hogan: And there's usually not as much public comment on that, but oftentimes that comes from industry feedback or from agency feedback or congressional feedback. Constituent feedback to create those rules. 

Ryan Eaton: Oh, I love it. I appreciate you breaking that down too, because I know the average probably person listening to the show right now is not used to that process so it's good to be able to hear that. So again, you mentioned even getting checks from six different companies, but the same position in a row with the companies and the different things, I know the NatG and previously in Allstate, you see a lot of the carrier side of it too, I would almost say internally, even though that may not be necessarily in your chassis, but it's still part of your overall company. But you also see a lot of other companies as well, because you work with so many and put them on the platform. What are you seeing right now, carriers looking at and thinking from an AI side, maybe let's start with how they can maybe build better products for their consumers, maybe start with kind of that from an AI perspective and we can jump to some other lines as well. 

Chad Hogan: I think some of what the industry does is it just comes down to basic analytics, right? What is my product? And who I'm being Quotit against. Where did I lose a sale? Those kind of things. And that's where a platform like Quotit, because we have some of that comparative data, can help our carrier partners to give those insights. I think some of the tool sets that we're coming out with around that AI data management and say, hey, this is a richer plan set, this is that. I think that also becomes useful for a carrier to start looking at their products and figuring out where am I competitive. 

Ryan Eaton: I get that.

Chad Hogan: It's data and it's market data. They can go out and gather that data themselves. Again, a lot of the actuarial departments, they're more focused on what's our experience, what's our loss ratio, what's our pricing going to be. And it's the world they know. Whereas you've got the sales guys that are going. I'm 10 points higher than the other carrier across the street, I'm losing business. 

Ryan Eaton: There's two sets of data. 

Chad Hogan: What can I do? And it's bringing those two sets of data together on the carrier side that I think for example, National General, now Allstate Health, has done a really good job with in terms of they have, their pricing and analytics teams very close to their sales teams. And they've been able to respond to market needs very quickly. Because those two verticals don't operate in their own segments. 

Ryan Eaton: Are you seeing anything from, potentially after the sale, like the policy issue or the consumer feedback from directly from the carrier that people are using right now that's helping with that experience, maybe even after the policy's been issued, keeping that client better engaged?

Chad Hogan: I'll give the feds credit on some things here, right? On the federal marketplace. They mandated that carriers provide in essence a book of business feed, it's more complicated than that, but there's a feedback loop to the broker to says, Hey, this consumer's payment maybe is no longer valid or this policy lapsed or those kinds of things. And it's across their book, right? It's every carrier that participates in the firm marketplace. I think we as an industry need to start offering that type of transparency to brokers across product carriers, right? And a lot of carriers have it in the portal. But I got to go log into that portal, and I got to find that and I got to do that across 10 different carriers so that's an area that I think the industry can work with our carrier partners to get better at either creating a standard around book of business. You talked about being on the carrier side, right? And that gen and all state huge property and casualty carriers. The property and casualty industry has done a great job of standardizing their communication mechanisms using whether it's a cord forms, a cord being a industry working group to identify and create data exchange types. But there's no kind of commonality in the insurance of people business, right? The insurance of things, they've got that figured out, right? They've got AL3 files, they have accord forms, they have standardized ways to communicate carrier to carrier, future coverage, prior coverage, WAFs, all these kind of things, claims, it's all been standardized. People are trying to do that. Whether it's with the various health sides, blue button, and FLIR and all the other kinds of standards that are out there. But so much of that is focused on the carrier side, claims management, payer side, provider side. There's not been a huge emphasis on the broker side and I think that's where what's my eye tools could potentially come into play, where you're starting to standardized book of business data and get that data back to brokers. Because I think a lot of agents want to provide great service to their customers. And whether it's, bringing in a different data source NCOA, National Change of Address, to inform a broker that their consumers moved and they potentially qualify for an SCP event. Something that simple.

Ryan Eaton: Simple but profound.

Chad Hogan: Yep and those are areas where I think from how do we as brokers or how do we as technologists create a better experience for consumers?

Ryan Eaton: That's good.

Chad Hogan: It's getting data into brokers hands that they can make action, brokers are inherently salespeople. They're not actuaries, they don't live in a data world, but every sales guy I've ever interacted with you give them data that they can make an act take an action on that's right And they will.

Ryan Eaton: That's right,

Chad Hogan: They'll use that information in a good way.

Ryan Eaton: No, I agree 100 percent. So thinking even from a leadership standpoint because this is the insurance leadership, how have you seen AI be used from a leadership perspective? Have you seen it from the people in the way that leaders are managing their teams right now and trying to better understand their employees? Or have you seen anything from a common leadership, maybe skill set that AI is helping empower, or AI is helping change? Or have you looked at that?

Chad Hogan: When you talk about people management. I think that's an area that as managers or as leaders, I love that. I want to manage, but as an employee it can be a little creepy or a little overbearing or whatever the case may be, so I think there's controlled environments where we've seen it happening, but call centers are a great example of that, captive distribution, where your calls are already being recorded. There's some information out there as it relates to salespeople, and If you run recordings of agents and you listen to the calls, which is what AI is doing, it's transcribing them. It has been found that in my professional services organizations, I'm going to lump insurance in with that, right? CPAs, tax attorneys, et cetera, that 95% of the salespeople will never ask for the sale. And I think that's true across the board, but that's always been anecdotal, right? People listen to calls, whatever. But now when you take and you do large language modeling and you bring it all in, right? And you start doing sentiment analysis, and you start looking at kind of the tone, the tenor, and the language that's being used. You'll find that a lot of salespeople don't ask for the call. That's coaching opportunity. 

Ryan Eaton: Yes. That's right.

Chad Hogan: That becomes an opportunity to say, okay, let's improve our training.

Ryan Eaton: In fact, the data.

Chad Hogan: Let's look at those kind of things.

Ryan Eaton: The leader's having the data to be able to help improve their training.

Chad Hogan: Yeah, that's correct and where AI has had a huge impact on that, whether it's companies, I think last time we talked, I've mentioned like Balto or Clarebridge, which is now part of Qualtrics, or others that do that kind of language modeling. Imagine being as a manager, being able to take a call center, 20 people. And have a transcription of every call that happened, and you want to know what products were presented. You can go in and say how many calls talked about Humana? Now, without having somebody sit there and like search word for word or listen for 19 minutes, right? And so now you can create a dashboard that says what, presented products dashboard. Every agency looks at sold products. But what was presented? Oh, we presented Humana 53 percent of the time, and we've presented Anthem 47 percent of the time. But we sold x carrier, I'm not going to pick one or the other. 83 percent of the time, that's data that as a manager, you can look at that and go, okay, so how should we better coach the teams? And then the other piece of sentiment analysis, I think we talked about this a little bit last time where I'm looking at compliance. As a compliance guy I, especially on the Medicare side where I have a script, right? I have a telephonic enrollment script. If I can give every call a compliance score based upon how did I hit the word? Did I hit the words in the script? What questions were asked? Right those kind of things and I can come back and say this agent has a 98 percent compliance rating or this agent has a hundred percent compliance rating or whatever the case may be. Again, that's very powerful data for me as a manager to go, here's where I have opportunities to retrain, or those kind of things and it's not me as a manager sitting there listening to calls and doing QA scoring, all the traditional things, so it creates huge efficiency opportunities.  I can't tell you all the times that we've had, maybe someone call in, Hey, I wasn't told this. And you got to go back and listen to the call, maybe a 37 minute call. And you're like, you got to listen to the whole thing to make sure that what they said is incorrect or correct, and that would be huge in that huge from a sales standpoint cause we do record our calls one thing we recently, we implemented last year to go into effect for March of this year, 2024 is we're doing AI calls for our payment changes and they have got away, I listened to the cause at first I was like, I don't want to talk to a robot. I don't want our people having to talk to a robot. The voices now that they have, you could talk to Bubba from South Mississippi and you talk to the Jersey. And if you can even pair voices based off zip code or area code ranges, then it's just it is changed so much. And even from that perspective, we were looking, I think it was 37 percent of our calls, were address changes, payment changes, or requests for ID cards. They're typically only 3 4 minute calls at most. But the number of them, if you can run those through a trunk line got it set up where you're speaking to Bubba or you're speaking to a Jersey guy or whatever the case may be. You have just saved, from a customer service standpoint, so much time.

Ryan Eaton: And customers are going to report it's a better experience. They ask the right question every time, and being from Mississippi, sometimes I can mumble a little bit, and have a little bit of a southern accent. And from that standpoint, having someone who speaks the language, people want to be spoken to in the manner in which they speak, right? And it's one of those things.

Chad Hogan: Now for us, we're looking at AI right now and trying to figure out how we can incorporate it more throughout our company and people said you think it's gonna get rid of your customer service seems you're correct. No, we don't see a single person need to go anywhere, we want to hire more, but we might reposition based off the things that we can automate to a better efficiency standpoint.

Ryan Eaton: What are you seeing here and thinking in the industry from that standpoint? I think it's a skill set elevation.

Chad Hogan: Yes. Is really what it comes down to. Is you're able to take the monotonous and the routine, and create an experience that good customers are comfortable with. Especially if you think of the feedback loop. You do a payment change. Push me an SMS that says, I got my payment change, I'm confident in the process, but that also then elevates the skill set, which now your customer service reps, your frontline, they're taking more complex questions, right? Which ultimately builds, I want to say better people, right? Because they're not focused on the monotonous. They're problem solving, which creates better job retention. So because people are engaged. Because it's not the same, I got to do 500 payment address changes today. That's not fulfilling, maybe there's somebody out there that is fulfilling for them for a job, but for most people, right? They need personal growth, and they need to be challenged. And doing an address change is not challenging, right? And so if you look at kind of some of the number one reasons people change besides compensation is because, I wasn't being challenged in my position, or I wasn't learning, or I wasn't growing. And when you start looking at kind of some of those very entry level positions, why are they entry level? They're entry level because they're repetitive. But to provide opportunities for growth, you get to more complex questions, you start building knowledge. Knowledge creates career growth, because if you can start handling those complex questions, then you have a next bridge to the next thing and so I actually look at AI and saying, It's going to force us as humans to transcend, up our game, and become better, what we do and how we interact. And we'll get comfortable with interacting with a machine on the monotonous, but I think there's always going to be a place, even, people are trying to AI the crap out of insurance shopping right now. There is no replacement for an agent.

Ryan Eaton: Yep. I agree.

Chad Hogan: I think Zenefits learned that lesson the hard way. There's no replacement for an agent, but I think AI will actually force us as humans to up our game.

Ryan Eaton: So here's get a personal question for you. How have you used AI personally in your own life to maybe simplify something or knock something out for you?

Chad Hogan: So I think there's the novelty of it. Write me a 10 paragraph essay comparing Star Wars with the Bible, right? Or something like that, right? Once the novelty wears off, so we took a family vacation over the holidays here. And we, it was a cruise, we went to some islands and places I've never been. Give me a itinerary for a family for five hours on the island of Aruba, or whatever it is. And it goes, okay, here's the top things to see, boom boom we recommend doing it in this order so you can, traverse this way, come on as a dad that was hours of research, to make sure I had an itinerary ready for our family.

Ryan Eaton: And submitting 10 lead forms on these different travel platforms to get the information.

Chad Hogan: So that's how I've personally used it. I think I mentioned a little bit like in Excel and Word and starting to play with Copilot and all those kinds of things. And again, that's credit to Microsoft and some of these companies that have invested in those tool sets, because it definitely makes us more productive. But again, we have to up our game.

Ryan Eaton: My brother's figured out a way to be able to help do his personal finances with AI pulling for this spreadsheet a lot of stuff, I was talking about earlier It's been pretty nice standpoint. So getting to the end of the episode What are you most excited about that you think, obviously you've talked about AI up in people's game and the things it will automate and some of the monotonous things that it can do for us and other things like that. What are you most excited about in 2024?

Chad Hogan: Futuristic thing, maybe it's not even exactly AI, but just something that you're most excited about you see coming down the pipeline to help better the overall insurance industry. So I'm a technologist at heart. And so,

Ryan Eaton: I guess that.

Chad Hogan: So I look at anything that creates change, as an opportunity. And I think the biggest opportunity for this industry is the up and coming crop of agents. There's a lot of old guard that are now passing some knowledge on. And that group of agents that are now entering in that 30 to 35 kind of typical entry career levels for insurance agents, they are digital first. I'm one of the last ones my generation was we had an analog childhood, and we had a digital adulthood. We're now starting to get that generation of digital first coming through and the expectation. And so I'm excited that carriers more so than anything respond to their agents. At least the good ones do.

Ryan Eaton: They should be listening. That's right.

Chad Hogan: And those agents are pushing technology, and they're asking the questions to the carriers. Why can't we do it that way? And carriers go because we've never done it that way.

Ryan Eaton: And we'd have to make a change.

Chad Hogan: So where do I see in 24 and 25? is I think we're going to start to see a bit of a shake out of those that embrace technology and the digital agent more so than ever before. And I think there's great opportunity and change, and our industry is seeing in the last 10 years from the first, we're at the 10th anniversary of kind of ACA going live 2013 to 2023. Our industry still hasn't moved a lot.

Ryan Eaton: Now, I agree with you.

Chad Hogan: In 10 years.

Ryan Eaton: I agree.

Chad Hogan: But it's gonna have to start picking up and I think 24, 25, 26 are going to start being some watershed moments for our industry from just integration, technology, working together from that kind of standpoint, and getting data back in front of agents and agencies. So I, again I'm excited about what the future holds. Yes I happen to manage a business that profits from technology. So of course I'm biased and I want to see change and those kinds of things happen. But again, and that's why I think I prefaced with I'm third generation in the insurance industry. I grew up, with a dad doing spreadsheets for his group clients. And who still calls me on occasion and says, Hey, can you help me get this Excel spreadsheet worked out?

Ryan Eaton: Which then gives you an idea for your,

Chad Hogan: And sometimes gives me an idea for something to put in a product or whatever the case may be but I think, we're here to serve customers first and foremost, to meet their needs. And secondarily, how do we interact better as humans and I think AI and the insurance it's a great part of.

Ryan Eaton: It's last thing I got for you today, in your 20 years of being in the business. What would you say is your favorite either leadership quote, or leadership experience, or maybe even the best leadership lesson you've learned over the years?

Chad Hogan: Yeah. I had an opportunity to be mentored by some really great individuals when I was at the University of Southern California, went through their entrepreneur program. We had Paul Orfalo, who was the founder of Kinko's in there. Howard Schultz, who's the founder of Starbucks. And so there were definitely some quotes that stuck with me, right? One of Paul Orfalo's quotes was happy fingers, make happy registers. Which means first and foremost, take care of your employees. Being a leader more than anything is inspiring people to want to go to battle with you. And so for me, I always come back and say, how do I create a great culture? How do I create a great team environment? Because I know we're going to face challenges as an organization. When Allstate came out and announced the sale of the accident health side of the business, which we're a part of, I went to my leadership team and said, guys, we've done this. For some of us, this will be our fourth paycheck from the same job. But, It's creating that culture, I've got a lot of leaders that have been with me for many years and I think creating that culture, happy fingers, create happy registers, which create happy customers. Another one other quote I'll leave you with, it's an old one from I believe it was credited to Thomas Edison so I'm going to have to correct me on that. Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration. I think that embodies the technology, industry as a whole because you can have a guy with an idea, but taking that idea through execution?

Ryan Eaton: That's the real deal.

Chad Hogan: That's the real deal. And there's some great leaders out there that have been able to take an idea and execute or take someone else's idea and just frankly execute on it. But those are two kind of leadership type of thoughts that I hearken back to.

Ryan Eaton: Happy Fingers. I like that. That's good. I've never heard that one before. Man. Look, appreciate you so much being on the show today. Guys, thank y'all for tuning in. Remember a good plan today is better than a great plan once for now. Thank you so much for tuning in.

Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Insurance Leadership Podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you'll be notified of future episodes, or stream online at insuranceleadershippodcast. com. Have a great day, everyone.