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Transcript

Ben Markland: Hey everyone, thanks for joining us for the Insurance Leadership Podcast. We have some returning guests today, Sharon Alford, who's the VP of Direct to Consumer Development. We have Warren Laird, who is the marketing director for individual products, they're both with VSP, they've both been on the podcast before, Sharon, one of our first guests we've ever had. And since then we've grown this to millions and millions of followers. We appreciate you sticking with us. And Warren did one with us last year and we enjoyed that one as well, he talked to us a little bit about his longevity at VSP, and Sharon has been essential, in a lot of relationships that we've had with her at different roles, at different carriers and different jobs within the same carrier, but she's been really essential to a lot of the partnerships that we have here at Morgan White. We wanna talk to Warren and Sharon today a little bit about what's new at VSP, what they're doing since we've talked last so start out, just tell us, sharing a little bit about what you're doing there now.

Sharon Alford: Sure. I've been there about seven, a little over seven years now. 'cause you can't believe it's gone that fast. And my primary role is really growing the individual space for VSP, which it's the fastest growing unit in our organization. And it has been for the last few years. So what I get to do is I just told Mike Guyette, our president, that I love my job, and he asked me why. And I said goodness, I get to sell to so many different people and so many different avenues. NVSP has a really fun product, so I, my job is really uncovering new opportunities and new relationships to grow our division.

Ben Markland: And I know recently, Sharon, you've also taken on some responsibility of growing the ICRA side of your business. So crossing a little bit over the aisle from individual to group. And I'm interested in, we in chatting a little bit about that too, but.

Sharon Alford: Oh, we have a lot to talk about on that one.

Ben Markland: Great.

Sharon Alford: Yeah.

Ben Markland: So Warren, tell us what's new with you at VSP.

Warren Laird: I have been with VSP since 1995. I've always been in a sales role. It's something that I wasn't sure I would love, but I did love and do love. I've worked for Sharon for the past seven and a half years. Worked with her, she probably would prefer me to say, and that's true. It's been a real interesting journey for me to get out of the group side and move to the individual side here with VSP, and I'm loving it and I'm enjoying my time with Sharon for as long as we can make it last and the success. It's been terrific, as she mentioned.

Ben Markland: So you're planning on sticking around a while, right?

Warren Laird: A little while longer? Yes.

Ben Markland: Guys, tell me a little bit about not just you personally, but in general, what do you see changing with VSP or maybe just the benefits landscape in general. I know we talked, we touched briefly on ICRA, I know that's something that's new to a lot of people. Any of the listeners, if you're not familiar with ICRA, it's an individual coverage, HRA and it's a strategy really to sell individual products to a group. And they're paid for by a contribution from the employer so a lot different than what most people are familiar with in the general kind of employer employee, we buy you insurance relationship. That's something we're seeing a lot in the benefits landscape in general. We work with a lot of brokers and we're seeing more people chatting about it, and I'm sure that's how it's become a topic of conversation at VSP as well tell us Sharon, a little bit about the changing landscape that you see with benefits?

Sharon Alford: Sure. With individual, I think one other significant change has been just technology and platforms. A lot of our growth has been expanding in the platform space. And it turned into a marketplace like in Amazon. Experience and that shopping experience for the individual. I think we've done a lot to expand in that area. One of the other things that we've done as well is just, we just purchased IMART Express, which is, has 280 stores locations, basically. But the significance of that, for us and for folks that you are distributing to and member and individuals. We bought them because it's, we call them a provider desert. They're in areas and regions where most people don't have access. And so it's been a very significant, grow not just a growth opportunity, but an opportunity to really be able to reach our focus is reaching members, reaching folks where they don't have access. So that's been a really big change or growth for VSP and for folks that are working with us, and.

Warren Laird: Yeah. I would say because of my experience and my tenure here at VSP when I came to work here, we were private practice exclusively. There was, you say a retail big box store. It was the worst thing you could possibly say at VSP and the change in our board, the change in our senior leadership has been remarkable in that. We have come to realize at some point that it's not what we want necessarily, it's what do our members want. In the provider desert, you have people that are out in rural areas that don't have access to a provider, and the IMart Express stores meet that need to a great degree. And so retail, I would say if there's anything that's the biggest change, it's the makeup of the board and the decision making process that the board goes through to evaluate, change, and making sure that it's progress.

Ben Markland: Okay. I'm curious, so the Imart Express stores, does VSP have any say where they're located or you guys said, Hey, these guys just have figured it out already and we want everything you got?

Sharon Alford: No. We have the, literally we're growing to another 50 stores

Ben Markland: Okay.

Sharon Alford: In the next two years. And because they've identified areas that we need to reach people and grow. So we absolutely have, a focus on growing that and specifically, and what's really key about it. We own lens Visionworks as well, but what's really key about this particular IMART Express, an individual can walk in, pick out their glasses, have their lenses made. While they're waiting in the store. So if they're driving far like they are because they haven't had access and they're go driving an hour or two hours to go get their glasses, they can wait and go home with them. So they don't have to come back and go pick them up a couple weeks later. It's all done there while they're waiting. And we just see such an opportunity to reach people that haven't had that access before.

Warren Laird: Very intentional. Where we're expanding to, we're not expanding to, it's a Jacksonville, Florida that area we're expanding to palatka or a smaller town where they may not have access to an eyecare provider. And the other thing is that they also provide exams there.

Sharon Alford: Yeah.

Warren Laird: So it's a total one stop shop.

Ben Markland: Okay.

Sharon Alford: And so when you talk about what are we doing that's new or innovative I just. I'm so passionate about that. It's because it is something that's, but it is it's ultimately helping reach people that needed the service. Need it.

Ben Markland: You mentioned technology too.

Sharon Alford: Yeah.

Ben Markland: Which we know, that's in the insurance world, that's the buzzword, right? Everybody needs it. It's almost it's gone from being a nice to have to, that's the baseline. If you're not doing it you're probably not gonna be around too long. So tell me a little bit on the technology side. Are you seeing user adoption? Are people ready to buy glasses online?

Sharon Alford: Yeah.

Ben Markland: Completely?

Sharon Alford: Yeah, actually we own another organ company called Iconic. And it has, it grows five to 10% every year and you've got your younger demographics that are really adapting to it, but it also does help to reach folks that don't have access again. It is and they are adopting that technology and you can do online try ons it is something that is absolutely growing in our industry.

Warren Laird: And it's not just the young people. I have several partners that are, their focus is retirees. And when we do our partnership reviews with these folks, their usage for their members of Iconic, which is the online store, if you will, has grown, every year. And overall it's grown to the degree that Sharon's talked about.

Ben Markland: But the long-term strategy, so you're investing in the brick and mortar stores while also investing in online. It seems like you guys have a really good balance there moving forward.

Sharon Alford: I totally believe it. And again I'm gonna sound like a broken record. It's making sure we're reaching folks that need, that have access and need it in every area. I think that's been really a significant piece.

Ben Markland: So tell me a little bit about trends that you're seeing that may be, not necessarily the member but what are some trends you're seeing in vision benefits that an insurance broker needs to be aware of?

Warren Laird: Historically, brokers have been primarily focused on the big ticket items, the medical. Maybe even dental to some degree, but I think that they're with the uncertainty, I guess is maybe the right word in reimbursements to brokers and whether they're a entity is even going to pay a broker.

They have realized how important it is to fill that gap with ancillary products.

Ben Markland: Absolutely.

Warren Laird: And ancillary can mean all kinds of things as we know from dental, on down to disability. And so I think the broker community and this is not happening today as much as it happened probably a year and a half ago, has realized that they need to diversify. And to make better use of their ancillary offerings to sell to the member and to look for selling signs from that client, I should have said to promote ancillary benefits to those individuals. It also makes 'em a lot stickier for the broker.

Ben Markland: It does.

Warren Laird: The more product you can do.

Ben Markland: That's right.

Warren Laird: You don't wanna leave Bill, my broker, because I do 10 things with them.

Ben Markland: And if you don't sell it to them, someone else will.

Warren Laird: Someone else is right behind you.

Ben Markland: And when we talk to brokers that kind of push the vision to the side because you're right. It's okay. It's not a huge ticket item. They're not making mega bucks selling it, but. Let's be honest if you can't see. Glasses is a now problem, right? So if the company doesn't offer it, either employer paid or voluntarily, somebody spends a lot of money buying glasses. It's not, I'm not to down other products, but, life insurance is a plan you use one time, right? And you probably personally aren't gonna see the benefit from it, right? Disability. Unfortunate you're protecting your income, but if you can't say you're buying glasses. And if you got insurance, it makes it a lot more economical for you.

Warren Laird: And the impact of not being able to see to the overall health of the member and the wellness of the member is dramatic. If you can't see, and you're walking in your living room and the rug is twisted a little bit and you fall and you're a senior, might be breaking a hip, which could cause real down the road problems.

Ben Markland: You took that very dark right there, Warren. Sometimes not having vision insurance makes you use your life insurance one day.

Warren Laird: That's right. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. But there are all things connected to the vision care of the member. And I think brokers are also coming to realize. That the wellness part of this is very important. A routine, comprehensive eye exam can detect things like hypertension, glaucoma high blood pressure, diabetes, onset of diabetes.

Sharon Alford: You can detect all of that through an eye exam.

Warren Laird: In fact, there are over 250. 250 different CPT codes that can be detected through an eye exam, and we regularly see testimonials that come across of people that had a tumor that was detected during the eye exam. Not because they felt the tumor in the back of the skull, but they saw it through the the eye exam itself.

Sharon Alford: Yeah. Wellness is actually a really big piece of what we offer and what we hope really continues not just for your vision, but there is a wellness aspect that I don't think is focused on enough and it is significant when they get their eye exam, and it is something that we absolutely provide through that eye exam.

Warren Laird: Yeah, it's a wonderful benefit. You go to the doctor, you get a new pair of glasses, you look better, you feel better, but during the.

Ben Markland: You don't fall down your head.

Warren Laird: And you go over, you don't trip over the dog as you're walking down the hallway. But there's the wellness component that the doctor has been able to look into your eye and see if there are signs of glaucoma, hypertension, diabetes, different medical conditions.

Ben Markland: That's interesting. So it's not just for people that don't have 2020 vision.

Warren Laird: Absolutely. A routine, periodic eye exam is one of the most important things, and I'm gonna look at right into the camera. One of the most important things.

Ben Markland: You're really mad at things do to do because I'm guilty.

Warren Laird: We'll work on that.

Ben Markland: Okay. Gotcha. Sharon let's circle back to ICRA. 'cause I know that's one that's close to you right now. I know you've been doing a lot of work on that and with a member now getting dollars to spend. Obviously where you come into play is, okay, they bought their medical insurance, they've got some money left. They want vision and somebody has to provide it, right? The big difference with Icra is your employer is not buying your insurance for you anymore. So tell us a little bit about how that looks for VSP and what you're doing to partner with some of these brokers out there that are doing it.

Sharon Alford: I'm happy to it hasn't been identified because it isn't something that's covered under the big beautiful bill necessarily on the medical, but it is so significant and folks do have income that they're being provided or from their employer to buy. So we recognized it and what I recognized and I wrote a white paper on it, focusing on what does icra mean in the ancillary world? Because it is different. And what does it mean to VSP particularly and what, how do we look at it? And I, when I wrote it, it wasn't just for vision, it covered some of the other ancillaries that are important. And so we recognized that it's something we needed to offer. And we'd like to be able to offer because individuals need it, 'cause they're being given this money to buy their benefits, and we need technology. Because it is being offered through a technology or a platform. We are partnered with Morgan White in helping to bring an opportunity in that we see for these employers to oppor to sell it. So it's been a wonderful growth opportunity. What I think people don't realize is a lot of the ICRA platforms in particular aren't necessarily offering ancillary yet, but it's still a need. So it's an opportunity for us to build something and offer it to these platforms and to folks that are out selling it. To really enhance what that individual needs as a package, a full package to buy. We've got a great partnership with Morgan White on that. We are looking at particular products that might fit into that space, for people, what are their needs? And what they need to buy. So we're particullar we're looking at what do we have the right product that we're selling.

Ben Markland: Do you see a different need for a potential Icra member than you do a true individual member?

Sharon Alford: Not necessarily. Everybody needs, they have the need. And as Warren already mentioned, it isn't just for your glasses, you need to have an exam. An annual exam so it is surprisingly, growing more than we had expected it to, just because it has been identified as, gosh, I've got my medical now I do need these others. And my employer isn't offering it to me, so how am I going to get it? So these platforms specifically for ancillary and Morgan White helping us with that has really helped with the distribution in that space.

Ben Markland: What we've seen too, which I think is a mishmash of how it should be delivered but is some of these brokers going in and they're partnering with one of these platforms, they get the employer contribution, they buy the medical, and then OPS, when people are asking for other stuff, they turn around and slap a group plan back in there. So you're really,

Sharon Alford: I have seen that.

Ben Markland: Not delivering on the full idea of, Hey, Mr. Employer, you no longer have to do or worry about insurance and hey, Mr. Employee, you get a choice of what you want to buy. So if you're doing, I'm doing it a little bit, but not all the way, I think to really deliver on what Icra can do, you gotta do all of it.

Sharon Alford: I agree, a hundred percent. I actually had a call with a broker recently who is doing exactly that, and it is mishmash is a great word because it's a little bit of, it's a disconnect. And it ultimately, I think, might confuse the member to a degree. So there is some work that needs to be done and communication. I think some of these brokers don't know that, opportunities exist. That they can utilize a particular platform or something to offer it as an individual basis. I think there's concern and they're still learning about it. Even in our own organization, when you talk to the group side, they don't realize that it's what's going on and that the brokers are sometimes even doing this. So it's an education.

Ben Markland: That's right. Change is scary. For anybody. And this is a big change. It's something that I don't know we've seen a change like this in the face of delivery of group benefits in quite some time.

Sharon Alford: Can I also off. So another thing that I had heard recently and it's primarily focused on maybe the 20 to the 50, the small group. But I have actually seen and heard, 'cause I've talked to some our consultants, the large consultants, they're actually using it as an opportunity when rates have gone up, like 30% rate increases as an another avenue or another product they can bring in as just a suite of, hey. I know your rates have gone up over here, let's talk about maybe there's another opportunity. So even in the large group market, you're starting to see some change.

Ben Markland: So Sharon, I also mentioned that you've been really essential in some of the partnerships between the companies you've worked for and our company.

On that kind of path, tell us what you think makes a strong partnership. A broker partnership, a carrier partnership or, I know you're working with technology partnerships now. What in your mind, makes a strong, partnership?

Sharon Alford: I hate relationships are significant key to me. Trust, I'm gonna list all those, but just I think communication, you have to continually be able to communicate. Marketing comes into play putting together the right messaging for our partners. And that they have it, they need it. They can use it. We'll we will help in that way with our partners.

Training. Training is key. We need to work with our brokers and our partners to continually educate, like that wellness aspect. We were finding that, you need isn't just one thing. It's a multitude of things that I think we package together for those relationships. We're always looking at compensation. What makes sense, what's working for. And what's reasonable for everybody? For the long run. I tend to use this saying it's a constant endurance race. You can't just build something and then, okay, this is great quick technology, let's build it, it's done, not ever done. You have to continue like an endurance race to manage your partnerships and to manage the relationship and to keep it to stay on top of it. You gotta stay on top of it. I don't know if that answered your question, but.

Ben Markland: Yeah. No, I think that's good. One thing we've seen in the last year is as our company has grown fairly quickly, is Ryan, my boss, has, he's got a saying. He said, distractions can show up at your door disguises opportunities, and as you continue to grow and you're on more people's radar. Everybody wants to be a partner with you. And it's important to figure out who is the best to really mutually provide value to each other and not just who needs what I got, and then we have to go do, all this and that, and maybe they can't hold up the end of their deal. We found that. First of all, long-term partnerships are extremely important to us. We love what we've built with companies like VSP and a lot of other carriers. We work with technology partners, brokers, but we want to continue to grow. And I think, if you hitch your wagon to the wrong horse, you can waste a lot of time and get really nothing out of the other end of it other than maybe an expensive learning, opportunity. I think we've learned that just because, the next person shows up with the next shiny thing, the people that are there and how they treat you and how credible you think they are is just as important if not even more important than the product or service that they're bringing to the table.

Warren Laird: Yeah. 'cause it's important, trust.

Ben Markland: That's right.

Warren Laird: Trust think what we just talked about and it's bringing the bad news. And bringing the good news. And I think that serves you well down the road in a long-term partnership.

Ben Markland: We both focus a lot on brokers. That's obviously, that's our distribution, our main one, and what we've done over the years is we have just added them up one at a time. Literally one guy here, one guy there, and it has become something massive. And obviously we have talking about the partnerships showing up on the doorstep. We have these partnerships with massive brokers, with, their own technology and stuff, they're building themselves but we really, I would say our sweet spot is probably more the independent agent, the small guy that needs product, they need technology and they don't have any massive entity behind them doing it for them. So we cut our teeth doing that type stuff. Tell me a little bit about what you guys are doing to make a broker's life easier.

Warren Laird: I think it's almost runs parallel to what, how we treat the member. As much as the broker that folks enroll in these programs and they can stop at any time. We ask for one year a premium, but there's nothing keeping them. We're not gonna chase them down if they don't pay that premium. But with the brokers nurturing, because you can create the easiest thing in the world in your ivory tower, to your mind that this is so simple. But if you don't train properly, if you don't continue to train properly, I think that brokers will lose interest in the product. They'll be approached by a competitor, another shiny object, and they won't feel connected to the carrier as they should be. So it's not just running out a product and a high commission schedule. It's also making sure that you nurture that member to get them to continue to pay their premium to us and also the broker to continue to sell our product top of mind when he or she sees a need for a vision program.

Sharon Alford: Yeah. And building an enrollment platform, that's just easy. Real easy. And then what we're also seeing is we have to adjust to how many different ways people like to pay. That has come up. Do you do this, do you do that? My daughter now uses, she doesn't have a checking account. So being malleable to all of that and open to all that for the broker, I think is significant. And we've done, I think we've both done a good job of making it easy for the broker.

Warren Laird: Coming to the member and coming to the broker instead of asking them to come to us. I think is important.

Ben Markland: Sharon Warren, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate one, your partnership with us first of all first and foremost, but also your knowledge, your perspective on the industry. I think you guys really have your finger on the pulse of what's going on and that's exciting to me. I love seeing a carrier that really is interested in moving forward and innovating and giving the people what they want. We appreciate what you guys are doing and thanks for joining us today.

Sharon Alford: It was our pleasure. Thank you.