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Transcript

Ben Markland: All right, we have with us today, Farah Rehman, and she recently took on a new role, Group Vice President at Franklin Madison. She was a partner with us in her prior role at Zurich, and I know kinda changing leadership roles from one company to the next can be daunting and a big move. And we actually were chatting just a few minutes ago about there's cultural differences, obviously, as well.

But tell us a little bit about the change. I know you recently moved from one of our partners, Zurich, and you're with a new company now, Franklin Madison. And I think just share with the audience kinda what it looks like being a leader in one place and changing to another company where there could be big Size differences, big footprint differences, cultural differences.

So tell us a little bit about how it's going. I know you said earlier you're 30 days in- Yeah ... so I know this is fresh but tell us what it looks like.

Farah Rehman: Yeah, so I am almost 30 days in, but I've known Franklin Madison for a long time, as well as I knew Morgan White Group, two of my favorites, for sure.

Yeah. I was working in the consumer solutions and leading that business for Zurich on the accident and health side, and so making this move over to the distribution side has been really exciting for me. It's not something I had exposure to before, and going from a large established corporation to something that I think has the opportunity just to be more dynamic because of its size, it's a growing business for sure, and there's a lot of opportunity to make an impact.

And so for me, that was one of the big things is I really wanted to be somewhere where I could make sure that I was overworked, as I told you earlier. Yeah. I love being overworked, but I wanna be overworked where I know I can deliver growth and drive new strategies and just have an impact in a driver's seat, and Franklin Madison's been great enough to give me that opportunity.

Ben Markland: That's very interesting. I think sometimes some of these companies get so large that making a change or making an impact, it almost seems like it's not even on the table, right?

Farah Rehman: Yeah, it can be challenging.

Ben Markland: And I think from a career standpoint, if you are someone that's so driven like that, that can sometimes wear you out a little bit or just take away- Yes a little bit of the, the glow of, "Hey, look, I've identified a gap, and here's something I think we can do really well," only for maybe you'd have to go through 16 more people to be able to execute on that, whereas if you're with a smaller company, a little bit more agile, you might be able to go out there and take some risks, right?

Farah Rehman: And I'm impatient.

Ben Markland: Yeah. There you go.

Farah Rehman: And so for me, I'm like, if I can't make an impact quickly I start to- Yeah ... lose traction. So it was just the right time, I think. And again, it's, in my career, it's always been on the insurance carrier side through AIG and then Zurich, and so being able to switch that over, taking everything that I learned, but now applying it to on the distribution side is really exciting.

Ben Markland: Tell us a little bit about your career. Tell us your journey, kinda how you got here.

Farah Rehman: So I started... This is sad. I started in college making copies of reinsurance treaties at American General Life. That was my very first job- Exciting. ... as an intern. Yeah, very exciting. I didn't even know what I was making copies of.

But when I graduated, I was in product development doing coding, so I was in their competition unit. Grew from there into sales, which I think that everyone should have exposure to working in sales. Like, when your feet are on the ground out there and you're meeting distributors and brokers, it's the only way that you actually understand the business.

Ben Markland: So- That's right ...

Farah Rehman: Did that for five years which was one of the best experiences. Got my MBA and then went into strategy for a little bit, did marketing, and then Zurich was building a new, a US life insurance business in the US, and so my former leader at American General pulled me and a few others over, and we started building that retail life insurance business.

So- Did that for about 10 years roughly. Then our life business and our accident and health business came together. That was my first exposure to the accident and health business, and got to do it again. We were building a new business again with a new leader on the ANH side for retail and consumer solutions that hadn't existed before.

So getting to again be an entrepreneur in a big company has always been exciting, so did it again five years ago, and then I was lucky enough to run that consumer solutions business before I made the leap over.

Ben Markland: Okay, great. It sounds s- y- you traveled with some of the same people too.

Farah Rehman: Yes, for sure.

Ben Markland: Did did you have a mentor or...?

Farah Rehman: I think I had... I was just very lucky over the course of my career to have really good leaders that kind of served both roles in a lot of ways. The former leader that was running the accident and health business was... I learned so much from him and his style of just leadership and transparency, trust, honesty, but also just, I don't think I understood what it was like to have to be visionary in that way. I'm very "Let's just get it done. Let's execute.

Yeah. But I was really lucky to have two leaders that really were more visionary. I'm gonna set this vision way out here, and I'm counting on you and your team to go execute and make it real. But it's taught me to learn to be a little bit more visionary, too.

Ben Markland: That's great. So tell me on that. Tell me leadership style and execution from the large cruise ship situation to the smaller, more agile speedboat situation.

Farah Rehman: Yeah.

Ben Markland: Tell me what you... And I know, once again, I know you're 30 days in so we might still just be working with the gears on the speedboat, right? But tell me, in your experience, w- what do you see that you have to really approach differently in these two situations?

Farah Rehman: Yeah, so I think one of it is that what I have to be cautious of is it's almost like you have this green space to play a little bit now where you didn't before, back w- to what you were saying, right? There's not 16 levels of approval. Our leader, Andrea Hager, is amazing, and she's very much about "Let's be bold." That's our big thing this year, and let's, test something out, and if it doesn't work, let's test something else out.

And she and I joked that we're almost too similar that way because we both think that way. And so holding myself back a little bit more, 'cause again, I'm impatient- Yeah ... is to say, "Okay, let's make sure that we are being aggressive in what we do," because you've suddenly got this open space, right? But also making sure that we're careful and thoughtful in, in how we do it.

Versus at, at a large carrier, it just moves slow naturally 'cause there are so many other factors involved and there's other strategies involved, and you have to find your prioritization. Whereas here, everything we do is a priority, right? So, there's not this balance of fighting for resources or fighting for attention or fighting for being part of a core strategy.

You're just, you are the strategy. It's you.

Ben Markland: That's right. And there's n- nowhere to lean on- Yeah ... if it doesn't work, right?

Farah Rehman: That's exactly right.

Ben Markland: But, that's- You take the good and the bad ... that's important in, in a- organization that really backs what you're doing and believes- Yeah ... in you, right?

Yeah. So yeah, they're not all gonna be winners. No. Right? And I think obviously the vetting in a smaller company, there should, there's gotta be a lot more weight on that because going the wrong direction for too long. Yes ... can, could sting a little bit more- Yes ... than one that might have, 12 different departments that could maybe make that- Yes, that's right mistake disappear for you, right? Yeah. So where do you think organizations struggle in execution of a strategy?

Farah Rehman: So I've seen that a couple of times for sure. I think part of it does go back to... A- and I, again, go back to my former leader on the Zurich side, who in the beginning we were building this thing out.

It's very easy to lose your way because you can't see where you're headed, right? Or you just lose sight of it because you get distracted by X, Y, Z, or priorities change or strategy changes. And one of the things that he would consistently point me back towards is that vision that he set for, X years out.

And so he's like if the activities of our entire organization aren't moving towards whatever that vision," quantifiable not just lofty, "if we're not... If every activity we're doing isn't moving towards that, then we need to rethink it." Yeah. So he would always go back to every priority for the current year, and we would do a three to five-year roadmap, have to go right back to that vision.

So he would say he would make us show it every single time, and that's something I adopted, too, is show it. Everyone needs to believe in it, know where we're going, and then know how their piece contributes to it. Yeah. So I think that's where we lose our way a lot is we set a strategy. Everyone sets strategies.

Ben Markland: Yeah, that's right.

Farah Rehman: But you kinda set it, and then you're like, "All right. We did the work of doing it," but you aren't really actually making sure that everything you do ties right back to that.

Ben Markland: It's not aligning, yeah. I actually have a, a, a buddy that recently moved to a, a higher leadership position in a pretty large company, and they were having a management type meeting.

And had the, the heads of each department talk about their top three priorities. Yes ... and they were all different. They're all different. And to them, absolutely. Yeah. These are my top three priorities for my department, but the fact that you've got X number of people sitting at a table, and there's no alignment- Yeah it's gonna be very difficult to succeed on all fronts there, right?

Farah Rehman: And I think that's the point, is focus areas by department should vary. Yeah. What you do with your team is gonna be different than what someone else does, but it should all be coming back together- holistically to move in that direction.

Ben Markland: Yeah. Yeah. No, and hey, it, it takes leadership to really drive that one home. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing at Franklin Madison. Tell me what you see kinda down the road a little ways. I- if there's a, a, an industry trend that you're kinda closely following or something that's exciting you. Tell me a little bit about kinda what you see a few steps down the road.

Farah Rehman: Yeah, so just a little bit quickly about Franklin Madison. It's as small, relatively speaking, to an insurance company as it is really well-established, right? It's been around for decades, and the primary focus forever has been banks and credit unions.

And so that's really our distribution channel is to serve those markets with insurance products, but marketing services as well, and say "We'll take care of this for you," right? "And we'll bring this value to your members." So it's really in my mind, it's really close to affinity distribution that way.

Okay. And so that's obviously well-established. We've seen some trends with the banks where they had to pull back at some point in the past because of some of the marketing practices and some of the scrutiny that came, and they're starting to come back. So we definitely are interested in kinda growing in that market.

The second part of our business is actually much more retail and marketing focused, and so that is bringing true marketing services to distribution, like partners that are in the insurance industry and financial institution industry. So they already work with a lot of just pure retail products today, so they have incredible capabilities for digital campaigns, direct mail, which is big, surprisingly, but it is.

Ben Markland: I was gonna say, I'm very interested

Farah Rehman: I know ... on that, I was surprised by that too, but it actually does extremely well, and it's a really core part of our offering that we've now built digital capabilities on top of using all of the science and the data that we have after decades and decades of learnings.

And so being able to bring that to market both from the kind of advertising and marketing side and being able to run those campaigns, but then also focusing on some of the affinity credit union and bank strategies is kind of it. So going into what my role is then is a couple One is really making sure that our product strategy is sound, so looking at that both for this year, but currently.

And that's not just bringing on new product through, existing or new carrier relationships. It's also looking at the portfolio of those that we've launched and seeing if they've been successful, and if they haven't, then why not? So one of the things that I love about this role, and it kinda goes back to what you were saying about different departments, is that this role is really intended to make sure that across the organization is everything driving towards revenue.

So it's not just about have we onboarded and made enough contacts with credit unions and banks and onboarded them, hopefully, right? But then once you get them onboarded, it's engaging with them very actively to make sure that we're running our campaigns effectively for both sides.

But then it's also on the back end, it's the marketing performance, and did it convert? And where does product sit with all of that? So to me, it's not ... It is building new product, for sure to bring to market with our carrier partners and other partners, but it's also going back and looking at the portfolio to saying, "Where is there more opportunity to get way better conversion?"

Ben Markland: I'm interested you, you talked about the importance of direct mail. Yeah. And, it's funny because some of our guests today w- we're going a completely different direction. We're talking about AI and everything. Yeah. And actually we'll talk about that here in just a minute. But so with what you're doing, direct mail is a big deal.

Why do you think in the customer you're trying to reach that differs and do you think that's trending towards digital, or is direct mail here to stay, and that's what you guys are going with?

Farah Rehman: I think it's both. Okay. So for sure we've made ... And we actually have s- have some significant inroads on the AI side to boost our digital campaigns going on this year.

So we're ... We're expanding beyond direct, which has been the core for a long time. I think the direct will always be there to stay because I, as we all get flooded with email campaigns, like I ignore, I have, I don't know, 2,000 unread emails in there, right?

Ben Markland: That's right. So does everybody.

Farah Rehman: Yeah. And so you have to ... I think you have to do both. But the, what we've been doing is trying to connect that direct mail journey to a digital journey. So really the whole key to success is the customer journey. Yeah. And so one thing that Franklin Madison is adamant about, which I know I saw on the carrier side, and now I see it on this side, is it has to be the cleanest, simplest journey as possible, right?

So that we make it very simple, and that requires- A lot of partnership with the with the credit unions and banks. It requires obviously just making sure that on the carrier side we're making it as easy as possible to be able to fulfill and finish the enrollment. But it is all about a clean, simple, quick customer journey, which can be hard

Yeah, in the insurance space especially on the consumer side, but it's really important, and that's why we think it's still effective.

Ben Markland: Yeah. I almost wonder, it's funny you said something, I started thinking about it while you were talking, is that the kinda trend has switched. It used to be your mailbox was full of junk- yeah

and your inbox didn't have anything but what actually mattered in it. Yes. And now your inbox is full of junk and people might be excited to open up their mailbox and get something out of it- Do something, yeah ... because it matters. Somebody actually did some research and found out who you are, right?

Farah Rehman: Yeah, that's right.

Ben Markland: So that's a interesting way to look at it. Yeah. But I do want you to talk a little bit more, 'cause you said, you guys have decades of data. Obviously data is the, most desirable product out there- Yes ... for anybody right now. What are you guys doing AI-wise with this data?

'Cause the, as, as data gets bigger- Yeah ... the ability for people to massage it- Yes ... and figure out what to do with it becomes r- really unwieldy. Yeah. And that's where I think, a lot of the, the role of AI in our industry, in insurance, I think that's where it's really probably gonna really grab a, a strong foothold is just data analytics.

So tell me what you guys are doing or what your thoughts are on AI with the, the data that you guys have on customer-

Farah Rehman: Yeah ... engagement. There's a few different areas that we're playing with. One is just to accelerate our ability to execute on campaigns, right? So we can get more out faster.

For, so for sure that's an area. The part that I'm the most passionate about is the customer side just 'cause that's where I lean the most. And I've already seen, again, when I was on the carrier side with Franklin Madison, is they would come back to us and they had such good data about how different campaigns tested.

Everything down to specific words, right? So it's very dev- deep in terms of that. We have our own data scientists on staff, and so- Okay ... we're serious about it- Yeah ... because you can't be a marketing agency without really- That's right ... knowing your customer. And now what we're doing is we're using AI to really get to know those customers better so that when we go back out to the clients, we can say, "We know that this particular product for this particular persona makes the most sense.

Let's layer that with this product and campaign." And so instead of going, full on with one campaign and seeing how it comes back, we're now ready to take all those learnings and say, "We now know." So that's one of the big changes for us that we're excited about is just personalization.

Ben Markland: To make you much more efficient and economical. Yes. You don't, there's no- That's exactly right ... trial and error really. You- Exactly.

Farah Rehman: You're not going to a broad, eligible audience. You're kinda targeting it a lot more. Yeah.

Ben Markland: All right, Farah, tell us, you've been through quite a few different roles and quite a few different roles in leadership specifically.

I'm sure you've had some hard lessons over your career. Tell us a little bit about maybe a lesson you learned the hard way, and maybe, if you could go back, would you do it different or is this, is it just this is what helped you get to where you are?

Farah Rehman: Yeah. I certainly have, as many of us have had, a, a couple of hard lessons.

I think that one for me is that I- thrive under a really strong leader. And when I've had those in my career, I could see that I love what I do. It just makes a really big impact on me. And some of the hard changes were when there were changes in leadership, and you would have someone who just, again, was passionate but caring, right?

Who knew where they wanted to go and were dynamic that way, but also was really had a ton of care for their people. That's important to me, is sincerity and honesty. And then there were times where that person's like, "All right, I'm retiring," or, "I'm done," and you are left with others, right?

Who maybe just aren't quite in the same boat. And to have to step back up and say "Okay maybe you have to be that leader now," which is hard because you're just so used to having this protective cover around you- Yeah ... has happened a couple of times. And so when those leaders leave, their strategy sometimes leaves with them, right?

That's right. Because there are new people in, and they have their own vision. And it doesn't always align to what yours is. And so you... There's, I think there was like a, I don't know if it was a TED Talk or a podcast, but I just remember seeing it, where this gentleman was talking about how he just did not believe in a particular product choice.

This was like an IT thing. And he really had to make a choice. It was whether he believed it or not, could he suck it up and still be there? Or it, was it just time for him to find something else? And that's a really hard lesson to learn. That is. And it doesn't mean that one is right or wrong, it just means that are you still aligned, right?

Yeah. And so really navigating that is, can be really hard. Yeah. But making sure that through all of that, I think what I hope I did well, especially last year through a lot of change, was, The team that was with me, I did everything I could to pr- I think, to protect them from that. Yeah. So that we were like, "We have a business to run," right?

"So let me take that and deal with the noise, but just focus on what you're doing," while we had leadership changes.

Ben Markland: Yeah. In a leadership position you do a- at least feel like you bear responsibility- Yeah ... for the people under you. You have to. Not even just in their job in general- ... but, just- Their wellbeing

How they are. Yeah. So are, are you okay? Yes. Exactly. Are you gonna be okay? Because, look, if somebody leaves somewhere if I work for a boss that retired, no one consults me on who- ... my boss gets to be. That's right. Yeah. And, there's an old saying, like y- y- what, people don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses and, or you can't choose your boss.

You can choose your boss, but you might have to go somewhere else- You might have to go somewhere else ... to find them, right? Yeah. So it's- Yeah. Ag- there, there is kinda that built-in responsibility that as you climb in your career, there's other people that may be climbing- ... right underneath you and you want them to be okay.

Yeah. That's the key. No matter what happens, right? Yeah. Yeah ... no, that's interesting. And, really n- you told me earlier before we started the cameras that the company you're with now is a, is... There's a lot of family in that company, as is there in the company I work for. Yeah. And that's, there's a great culture, but there's also a different dynamic- Yeah

than the really strict corporate kinda situation. People walk around and hug each other at our companies.

Farah Rehman: Yeah. So- I'm lucky to get a lot of hugs when I go to the office building. Yeah.

Ben Markland: And- Yeah ... and, some people like that. Some people may not like that at all.

Yeah. But, you gotta find what culture you kind of- What's right for you ... fit in. Yeah. And no I think that's very interesting that I don't think it's uncommon that sometimes people's journey, just in the whole thing of just size of company, you might go here, and then not that you went down by anything, but it's like, "Hey, you know what?"

A big change "I got to here, and now I think I like the idea of going here."

Farah Rehman: Yeah. And- You have to be open to it

Ben Markland: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's what it was. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, the last question I wanna s- ask you about is for leaders that may be going into a new role- ... or going into a new company, or maybe even a situation like you mentioned that you might be a leader, but the person that really got you there, they're gone- for one reason or another. What advice would you give to a leader that is struggling or looking at big change that may be completely out of their control, and how to stay grounded in a situation like that?

Farah Rehman: Yeah, I think that one is, which is the hardest thing for me as well, and I'm doing my best in 30 days, is to give yourself grace, for sure.

And I've been really fortunate again with the team at Franklin Madison, where they're like, "You only get this time once," is what they would tell me, right? So learn and absorb, and again, I'm like, "But I wanna make an impact- ... on day two- ... not on day 90." And I'm finding my balance there. But, one is really, I think you have to give yourself grace because you'll spin out of control so fast if you're trying to be too dynamic too fast.

And I think there was, like, in one of my MBA classes, someone had talked about where new leaders coming into an organization fail the most is that they've got their own ideas, and they come in ready to make change immediately- ... and they just throw everything into chaos.

And so it's really important to make sure that you're listening to whatever team you're taking on, whether it's a succession plan like you talked about, or if it's a new organization or new department is if you don't take the time to hear everyone else's perspective who's already been there, right?

They know it all. And respect that perspective, then you're gonna come in not... You're coming in blind, but you think you know it all, and you've now ruined your credibility and your reputation and relationships. So I think coming in and really taking the time to listen, giving yourself grace and just absorbing as much as you can to then be able to come in and say, "Let me layer what everyone else already knows and is doing," which is, they succeed for a reason.

And then saying "All right, I have an outside perspective with fresh eyes," right? So now I can take that and marry those two versus just coming in with my outside perspective.

Ben Markland: So slow your roll.

Farah Rehman: A little bit.

Ben Markland: That would be the words, right?

Farah Rehman: I don't know if I like that as much, but yeah, probably. Listen, okay. Listen and act at the same time.

Ben Markland: No I think that's great. Farah, we appreciate you being on. Thank you. This was fun. I appreciate it. Wish you best of luck with your new role. Thank you. I think the sky's the limit for you,

Farah Rehman: Thank you. I'm looking forward to us working together, Ben, somehow.

Ben Markland: Absolutely. Yeah. We are, too. Thank you. So thanks for joining us, and thanks everyone for watching us today.