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Transcript

Ben Markland: [00:00:00] All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Insurance Leadership Podcast. Today's guest, I'm very excited to introduce, is Marques Ogden. He's a jack of all trades. He's a former NFL offensive lineman drafted by the Jacksonville Jaguars. He was just telling me that. I, I'm sure for you watching on YouTube, you can see the backdrop. His is much cooler than mine. Unfortunately, I don't have my jersey or anything up here. But nonetheless, successful entrepreneur, keynote speaker, executive coach. He has a lot of experience in the insurance world, so he was just telling me all the different insurance companies, carriers, brokerages that he's kinda spoken in front of. So I think he's, he's very relevant to what we're doing on this podcast. He's got a book coming out very soon. We're gonna chat about that a little bit. He has a, a leadership program called the Bison Operating System, which Marques will talk on that as well. But, you know, I, I tell you what, let's get started off. Just tell us a [00:01:00] little bit about your journey and, and how you got here. I, I know your book, uh, the, the main theme on that is, is kinda overcoming adversity. So, you know, tell us what got you from the NFL through all your journeys, I know you had a construction business and so on and so forth, and now you're out there talking to people about how to make it and be a leader. So give us a little bit of your background.

Marques Ogden: Yeah. I'm from Washington, DC. I went to Howard University in Washington, DC. I had a great time there, great experience there. My father also went to Howard University as well. He played football for the Bison, so it's kinda cool to carry on that legacy. I got drafted into the National Football League by the Jacksonville Jaguars. My rookie head coach was Jack Del Rio, who was a phenomenal player out of USC, played for the Vikings for many years, the Raiders, was just a hard-nosed, hard-hitting middle linebacker. Jack was a phenomenal coach. I'm gonna tell your audience the exact same thing that Jack told us, our entire [00:02:00] rookie class, draft and undraft, the players right before we had to have our first veteran mini camp. He said, "Gentlemen, if you wanna be successful in life, be your own CEO." I like that. "Be your own chief executive officer." Jack said, "Do not wait for me or anybody else in this building to tell you what to do, how to do it, where to be. Be self-inspired. Be self-starting." Then I went and played for Baltimore under Brian Billick, amazing coach. Went to Buffalo under Mike Mularkey. I had a chance to share this with the Big I of New York when I spoke for them in Verona, New York at the ca- Turning Point Casino Resort. Great people, amazing people. One of my great friends, Doug Benes, is the chairman of the Big I New York board, and he helped to get me in, and spoke for them, and then I told the audience, "Coach Mularkey said, 'If you wanna take [00:03:00] control of your life, control the four Cs, your calendar, your clock, your communication, and your consistency.'" So I talked about that, especially in the insurance business when you're an agent, you really don't have, quote-unquote, "people sitting on top of your head telling you do this, do this, do this." You're kind of your own boss even though you work for people. You have a boss, you have leaders, all of that, but you have to kind of manage your own schedule, get out there and network, meet people, do business, and really take control of your calendar, your clock, how you communicate, and being consistent. And the audience really loved that. It really resonated very well. And from there I went and played for the Titans, finished off in Tennessee. Amazing, uh, people, organization, Jeff Fisher. One of my coaches was Mike Munchak, who became the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers for a few number of years. Just great, great people. And got out of the NFL, and I struggled immensely with, you know, [00:04:00] addiction and painkillers and nightlife, all this stuff, right? And so it was really difficult for me. And then I got into construction, and I built this massively successful company. We got to multiple eight figures per year annual at our height, and I was the largest African American-owned subcontractor in the city of Baltimore and the state of Maryland, DC regi- and the surrounding areas. But unfortunately, as my company grew, my ego grew probably 10 times as fast, and I ended up becoming this leader who didn't listen to people, that didn't learn how to be humble or show gratitude or appreciation or to have a servant heart with a servant mentality. I ended up getting onto a job site where I spent about $2 to $3 million of my money and the bank's money and leveraged everything I had in the company, uh, over budget to finish the job. [00:05:00] Finished the job, and unfortunately, the contractor, the developer denied my change order, and it sent me into a Chapter 7 complete bankruptcy. I had to leave Baltimore with only $400 to my name, got down here to Raleigh, North Carolina, and I ended up hitting complete rock bottom after I was fired from two jobs in the same week. I had to take a job as a custodian working in downtown Raleigh for $8.25 per hour, and I ended up being in this position of saying, "Wow, I'm the one that put me here, and if I don't make a change now, then I'm going to be here for the rest of my life," living what I call the has-been syndrome. I had been a phenomenal football player. I had been an NFL athlete. I had been a multi eight-figure, [00:06:00] making seven figures a year for myself, construction company owner. But what I said was, "If I'm going to get off this curve, it's gonna have to be me that does that." And that's what launched my speaking career back in 2013. And you know, first two and a half years, not one paid job. Got my first paid job in April 2016. 2018, met Mel Robbins, was in her audiobook, Kick Ass with Mel. I then went to another program, NAPSA program, National Athletic Professional Success Academy, and I was able to learn the business of speaking, coaching, consulting. So in the last 10 years, since my first paid job, we've worked for over 90 Fortune 500 companies as a speaker, and we do a lot of work in finance, insurance, commercial and or life, real estate, mortgages, [00:07:00] technology. We get hired for other things too, education, sports, associations, things of that nature, but we're very fortunate that people in those five really key verticals love what we bring to the table, and we've been able to really maximize that and help a lot of people break through barriers to move to new heights and new summits in their personal life and their professional life.

Ben Markland: Yeah, that's, that's fantastic. So Marques, you, you tell that story and I'm interested because it's almost like you did it the opposite way of a lot of people. You know, drafted in the NFL, you're making the big bucks. You're out of the NFL, y- you start, you have a successful business, and then the humility came after that, right? You said the ego got there and you were, you were kinda humbled. You said you ended up with $400 in your pocket, right? After being on the top of the world for years, and, you know, I, I think some people have the opposite experience. So you kinda up, down, up, down, right? [00:08:00] So how would you say that your experience and kind of your, your ascension and then, you know, kind of being humbled by the, the banks or, or by just a, hey, a business decision that may have had nothing to do even with you, right? I, I mean, there, there are ups and downs in every business, especially our business. You know, what we're doing with insurance, you know, it could be changed tomorrow with the stroke of a, the pen in Washington, right? We might have to completely pivot into how we make money or a service we provide or, or a plan that's out there. So I guess where I'm getting at is, you know, how do you think the experience of, of going from the top and then kinda having to restart, how did that forge your journey and, and really your leadership style as well? 'Cause I love what you told me about the coach saying you're your own CEO. 'Cause right, you're on a team, but you still have to be advocate for yourself, right, ultimately. And I think part of being a CEO is being able to be a, a, a good part of a team, right? If you get too disconnected from the team that you're working for [00:09:00] or with, you know, the, the, the respect, the admiration, the, the need to work together kinda, kinda starts to wane a little bit. So I guess tell me a little bit about the journey and, and, and, and the restart that you've done throughout your career.

Marques Ogden: So for me, I've always had to really learn how to pivot- after difficult times. When my NFL career was over, I didn't know what I was gonna do next. I had to pivot. When my father passed away, that was difficult. I didn't know what to do. I had to pivot. And every time in my life I've pivoted, when I had the not, you know, good mindset, or I call it the personality ethics, things like rage, wrath, lust, envy, greed, things never worked out. And when I had what's called the character ethics, truth, honesty, loyalty, virtue, patience, things turned out so much more impactful. So what I'm doing today as a speaker, as a coach, [00:10:00] as a consultant, as a- I'm currently right now a six-time best-selling author, so our next book coming out, Built From The Storm: The Bison Operating System, is gonna be, for me, book seven. It'll be four by myself. Uh, excuse me, it'll be three by myself, and then I've been a contributing author to four other ones, so number seven total. And again, what I've learned is that every time in life where you pivot, and you remain humble, and you remain full of gratitude, full of, you know, just the right type of temperament, everything usually works out better. Now, of course you can't predict. Things sometimes, you could be the most humble person in the world. Like you say, a stroke of a pen, bad things happen. You can't control that. But what I've worked on controlling are my thoughts, my behaviors, and my images. I tell people, great quote by Jack Canfield, "E plus R equals O." [00:11:00] Event plus response equals outcome. You can't control the event, but your response, either your thoughts, behaviors, or your images, now that you can control. I mean, you control them, you have a much better outcome, the O, because you have a better frame of mind. So the NFL taught me how to be resilient and climb to new summits.

Ben Markland: That's good. A- and you know, I think especially i- in what we do, you know, there, there's, we work with a lot of white-collar people, but also we work with a, a lot of, uh, sales guys, which you're gonna say these, you know, these are type A personalities. Ego can show up very quickly and, and so can people getting kinda focused on reputation. And I mean, what's the, what's the quote? You know, your character is what you do when no one's looking, right? Reputation is what people think of you. And I think balancing those two things is extremely important because I think character is something that's built, and it's built throughout your life, and your [00:12:00] challenges, and your successes. Reputation, I think it, uh, it sounds bad, but I think reputation can be faked, and I think pe- people can become too obsessed with it. And you know, when, when the perception that, of you to other people becomes more important than who you ultimately are- I think people can see through that, right? And I, I think especially someone in a leadership position, you're not gonna gain a, a whole lot of followers to being someone that's obsessed with reputation or ego or money. Now, don't get me wrong, as a leader, and especially someone in a sales position, money usually represents some level of success, right? But, but just like with you and your journey, there's ups and downs. Um, if you're an insurance agent, I, I mean, you, you can live and die by the sword. You make a great sale, you're on easy street for a while, and they don't renew, and you're back to square one, right? So, you know, I, I think, uh, I, I like what you said earlier, too, about the four Cs, and I think that translates to [00:13:00] any industry. A- and with us, I think if you can manage those four Cs, you get the fifth one, and that's commission payment, right? And that's how we keep moving. So let, uh, that being said, tell me a little bit about, with your experience in speaking in our industry, in insurance, what do they bring to you as some of the challenges that they have in just persevering, uh, leadership, just, you know, when you're coming in to talk, uh, to a room, you know, what are they looking for?

Marques Ogden: We do a ton of talks around how to cultivate the bison mindset to rise and/or continue to rise to new summits and have successful sales, right? I tell people a few things. Sales is the transfer of energy and/or enthusiasm. People do not buy, quote-unquote, your policies. They can get the policy from anywhere, any Joe Blow Schmo or [00:14:00] Sally-

Ben Markland: That's right.

Marques Ogden: Who, whatever, on the block. Anywhere. What they're buying is you. How excited are you about your product, your service, your offering? How excited are you about what you're bringing to the table to help solve their problems with your product, but also with your wisdom and your experience? So that's a big thing. And so I tell people, "If you wanna really thrive in sales, it's a couple things. One, you have to learn how to develop the bison mentality." The bison is the only animal that charges directly into the eye of the storm. It's the only one. And there's an acronym for bison that we created. Boldness, integrity, self-awareness, ownership, never, ever quit. When you really have those elements, you're always in prime position to have the bison mindset and, or [00:15:00] mentality. So that's one. Second thing is when it comes to sales, it is about your pipeline, right? I, I heard a great quote from a gentleman who works with Truecordia, and I love this. I forget his name, but I was telling you this was, this is where it came from. If it's not in your pipeline, it's a pipe dream. And in business, you need to be building relationships with people and not trying to go for the, quote-unquote, "quick sale," right? Again, people that are hearing me on this amazing podcast looking for a speaker, check me out. Look at our website. Check out our references. Again, with our book coming out, Built From The Storm: The Bison Operating System, Mr. Felix Morgan, the CEO of Truecordia, a top 20 largest commercial insurance brokerage out of Lindon, Utah, he wrote the foreword. He endorsed what we're doing. We've spoken for those gentlemen and that, those ladies for, for now, what? Twice this year, once in February [00:16:00] and once in, uh, uh, April. And just amazing men and women, amazing human beings at Truecordia. So we just talked for them on, on how to rise to new summits. We talked about better connection creates better performance, which creates you rising to new summits. So ladies and gentlemen, if you're listening to this podcast, we do a lot on talks around mindset or sales or raising and, or elevating yourself to the next level. And we tell people it starts with the little things. The little things are gonna add up to the big things. If you skip out on the little things, then more than likely trying to do the big things, it either will never happen, or worse yet, like my construction company, Capable Enterprises, you may get there initially, but at some point, if it's not built [00:17:00] off the right foundation, it will implode the same way my construction company went from a, you know, multi eight-figure business at the end of 2011. And at the end of 2012, December 23rd, 2012, the bank calls me at eight o'clock at night and tells me, "Marques- we're shutting you down come January 1st, and we're coming after everything you own." And that's the harsh reality of life.

Ben Markland: So there it is. There it is. I'd like to know what advice you'd give to a young salesperson. So, you know, the, even in the last five years, I agree with you, I think building the pipeline is, is the absolute most important thing. But when you're coming in, you're a young man, young woman, you're starting from, from zero, you're starting from the floor. Um, because of social media and AI and short clips and TikToks and all [00:18:00] this, nobody has the attention span to listen to you anymore, right? I, I mean, you, you're gonna get seconds of somebody's day as opposed to minutes or hours. You know, uh, getting someone to answer the phone, you know, I see even young people that, that work for us here that, I mean, they're, they're doing their best, they're dialing for dollars, and that's something that's kinda dying. I mean, our phone carriers now tell you when to not answer the phone, right? And people already don't wanna answer it anyways. So if we don't recognize this number, I'm not getting through. Do you have any words of advice for a new salesperson in any industry that's, that's kinda starting from nothing to, to kinda overcome as they're climbing that mountain, as they're looking into the storm and the results just aren't coming, what are you telling them to say, "Hey, you know, you're doing the right thing. You keep persevering. You're gonna build this pipeline and everything's gonna be okay"?

Marques Ogden: A couple things. Number one, I would tell them to get a mentor. [00:19:00] Most times young people, and I remember this like it was yesterday 'cause our business has been a- almost 13 years old. When I started Ogden Ventures LLC, we didn't have any money to hire a coach. Would've loved to do that, but didn't have it. So what I did was I found a mentor that would reach- I could connect with like once every two weeks for 30 minutes. That's it. I didn't need a lot of his time, but I needed some guidance. And so if you're struggling right now with your business in insurance, find a mentor in your business either at the company you work with. If you're independent totally, find someone that you respect within the industry and say, "Hey, I'm just starting out. I'm struggling. I would love, if you are okay with it, if you could give me half an hour to an hour of your time per month, per month to help me with some [00:20:00] strategies around how to connect with people in a deeper way." 'Cause most times if young people are struggling, they're just not connecting in some way. They're missing the mark in some way, and they need to have somebody that's not in their business help them work on their business. 'Cause again, when you're in the trenches you can't see. I have a coach. I've been working with George for, phew, almost two years now. We have a call once a week, half an hour maximum going over the numbers, income, jobs, what do we win, what we working on, blueprint, strategy, planning, all that. It's just half an hour per week, right? That's it. 30 minutes per week every, usually every, usually every Friday. And what that does, it allows me to stay on track and know where I'm at. And more importantly, know what I need to do if I'm not on my way to hitting my goals, how can I pivot or adjust or [00:21:00] make, you know, decisions that are, you know, need to be done quickly? I saw this past weekend, Young Washington, about the George Washington story. I had no idea how many times he pivoted in battle and how many times he made quick decisions, how many times he, you know, used to think things through and didn't have a lot of time to make those very important strategic battlefield decisions. But he did so 'cause he processed things a little bit differently than others and was able to execute what he felt was right. And that doesn't mean every time he was always right, because he wasn't. He actually lost a pretty big battle to, uh, to the French, uh, when he was with, uh, the Brits. And, you know, it was like a, where he actually ended up stepping down from being a co- a colonel, and then he came back as a scout, and then he kinda worked his way up the ranks, and then he became who he was, left the British and stood forming the colonies. And now here we are, the United States of America in July 4th, I believe, [00:22:00] 1776. So again, this is a story of an individual who constantly pivoted, but his mentor, his teacher was his half-brother. His older half-brother taught George Washington how to be a gentleman, how to be a military tactician, because unfortunately he was not allowed to go to school 'cause he didn't have the type of financial backing. So his half-brother taught him. As a result of that, he learned the ways, got in the military, worked his way up the ranks, became our first president of the United States. So again, somebody that you didn't even really realize, and I sure didn't realize, had a mentor that poured into him. So to answer your question, if you're wanting to do well in this business, like any business, if you look, and when you're starting out, find a mentor, someone that just give you a little bit of their [00:23:00] time to help you create the strategy for the long term.

Ben Markland: Yeah. No, fantastic. And, and actually I've been wa- meaning to catch The Young Washington. You beat me to it, so don't tell me the ending.

Marques Ogden: Oh, I won't. I won't.

Ben Markland: But nonetheless, so look, I, I'm also curious, you know, especially you kinda d- speaking in corporate settings, I know something a lot of leaders are focused on now is culture. Th- I think some people use it as a buzzword, but, you know, culture i- is important to get people really to buy in to what you're doing, right? And, and, you know, now and, and especially since COVID, lots of businesses have gone to hybrid or, or fully remote a- and, you know, the interaction, like what we're having right here, there's a lot of people that th- they don't look their coworkers in their eye face-to-face for years, i- if ever, right? You know, I, I think leaders are, are kinda struggling to, to find a way to develop a company culture, and that's something that's a lot more difficult to do through the interwebs, right? So what, how do you speak to that [00:24:00] for, for a leader that maybe you're running, uh, you're, you're leading a group of people that, you know, y- you're not there sitting across the table, and you don't get to kinda huddle like you would with an NFL team on a daily or weekly basis, and you're really just kinda limited to, "Hey, we talk on the phone. We send emails." How can we contribute as a leader to a culture that people, you know, buy into? Because when you believe in your company and what it's doing or what you're selling or what service you're providing, obviously you're gonna be so much more of an asset, not just to the company, but, but to yourself. You know, I think it just makes for a more enjoyable experience in your career if you're not just there to collect a paycheck, right?

Marques Ogden: So what we do is we meet as a team twice a week through Zoom-

Ben Markland: Okay.

Marques Ogden: ... or Google Meet, actually. And it's me and my team m- a few of my team members, Danica, Abby, Ziya. We have a meeting on Mondays, we have a meeting on Fridays. We're able to come to the table, we have an [00:25:00] agenda. Abby kind of runs the agenda. We stay on point and we execute or we talk about things in the agenda, and then Abby will send out a recap email on, when we meet on Fridays or Mondays, so everybody knows either due what's coming up for the rest of the week on Mondays. Then on Fridays to recap what we've done from the prior week and what we're gonna be focusing on going into the next week. And then Monday we just kind of make sure if there's anything new to discuss, we bring it up. It goes on the new meeting notes recap section, goes out to us, boom. My point is culture is something you can't see, but it's there. Culture is the alignment of the people that work for the organization that are all moving towards a unified goal. We have a big job coming up, uh, in October. October 2nd for the Big I National. We're gonna be speaking in Baltimore [00:26:00] for their organization. It's, we're so excited. It's gonna be on Friday, October 2nd. And they hired us to speak on one of our talks titled How to Create a Winning Culture, like one of the greatest teams in NFL's history, the 2000 Baltimore Ravens. I was 19 years old when my brother and Ray Lewis led that team to the Super Bowl. I got a chance to see it from behind the scenes, practices, locker room, meetings, the staff. I got to really watch Brian Billick operate as a 19-year-old college student. Now, of course, today, if I did that, it would have not been, probably wouldn't be allowed. But back then, it wasn't the same type of, you know, rules when it was to college football, especially if you were an athlete looking to go pro. So we were able to take advantage of that. And I learned a lot from, again, my brother, Ray Lewis, Brian Billick, Ozzie Newsome. And as [00:27:00] a matter of fact, we actually have pictures of these people, Jonathan and Ray, Ozzie, and Brian Billick in our PowerPoint that we're gonna be doing and presenting for the Big I because Jonathan and Ray were the next generation of young leaders to lead the team on the field. They were both only in their fourth year. They were drafted in '96, so that '99 season was actually their third year, uh, both going to their third year, right? It was their third season, right? So then they go from vet, from rookies to having to grow up and lead the team into the Super Bowl, be two important factors. And then Ozzie Newsome, he was the orchestrator of the culture 'cause he drafted Jonathan and Ray. And he got so much flak from the media. Why would you draft a tackle? We have Tony Jones. Why are you drafting undersized, not fast, not speedy [00:28:00] linebacker in Ray Lewis? And the only players in NFL's history to be drafted by the same team, play their entire career with the same team, and all four of them were first-ballot Hall of Famers. Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis, Baltimore Ravens 1996, Dick Butkus and Gale Sayers. Hmm. So they were, that was the four. But again, that's culture. Culture is about everybody in your organization moving towards an alignment around a unified vision. When you have that in football, in insurance, in a company, in your personal life, in your professional life, wherever it is, you are destined for greatness. So I'm so excited. We're so excited. As a matter of fact, we were just talking about that PowerPoint with my team yesterday. We're in the, we're in the process of putting it together right now as we speak.

Ben Markland: Fantastic. [00:29:00] Off subject, but I, I'm, I'm curious, was Ray as intense in real life as he was on the screen?

Marques Ogden: Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Like, just super intense, and especially that season, right? 'Cause they, the defense knew that the offense was not high-powered. Trent Dilfer was not going to get you 40 points a game, and the defense knew that. And instead of complaining like, "Oh, we're shutting people out getting them three points," or, "And we're just winning barely," they said, "No, that's okay, guys. Do what you do. Get us at least 10 points. Get us 10. And we'll take care of the rest. Do the rest." And that's why the Ravens were so dominant. They were such like... You think about teams like that, the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the 1985 Chicago Bears. Like, they had Jim McMahon, Walter Payton, but they also had Mike Singletary, the re- the Refrigerator Perry, Wilber Marshall, Otis [00:30:00] Wilson, Richard Dent. Like, they were just headhunting on defense. So what the Ravens did was they knew where their strengths were on the defensive side of the ball, and the defense never made the offense feel like they weren't valued or appreciated, 'cause the defense knew that it couldn't score points all the time. Sometimes they did, most times they didn't. So the offense, they encouraged, they gave, you know, they said be- they were positive. And that led the charge for them to get everything in motion, and that's why they're considered one of the greatest teams in NFL's history, because of that reason.

Ben Markland: Yeah. No. That's... A- and look, I think that's an analogy to any business. I mean, our business, you've got the sales guys and, and they can sell plans until the cows come home, but if you don't have your management team, and your business team, and your customer service team, and your renewal team, if that's not all meshing together, you could succeed yourself right into failure, right? "Hey, we write a whole bunch of business, and have [00:31:00] a whole bunch of unhappy customers at the end of the day." Right? So all those pieces have to come together, and I think, uh, you know, like you said, culture i- is, is, that is a driving force that can get you there. So.

Marques Ogden: Amen.

Ben Markland: Well, look, you know, I know we're, we're kind of on time here. Uh, Marques, I certainly appreciate you. I appreciate your insight. I wanna kinda wrap it up with, with one more question. So if, if you could leave our audience with one little tidbit of leadership advice or just, uh, you know, uh, perseverance advice that they could put into practice this week, what would you say?

Marques Ogden: One of my favorite quotes from Aristotle, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." Start doing things every single day, the little things, and make them become a habit, right? In your business, start by making those calls. If you're not doing that, do it. [00:32:00] If you don't have a CRM, get one. Organize people into your CRM. Start building systems to help you get in front of people, right? If you're not doing that, then you need to alloc- get... Do more relationship building. Do more, you know, outreach, right? Whatever it is that you're not doing, start doing it. The only way to thrive through a storm is to go through the storm. You can't run away from the things you don't like to do or the things that you struggle with. Like me, I stink at PowerPoints, or I stink at things of that nature, like, you know, blogs, right? But my team doesn't. But again, I'm the one that meets with them, we talk about it head on, and I make sure that we work things out, things get done, and then from there, the team executes, right? Now, if you don't have a team, that's okay too. Just start with something [00:33:00] small, right? What do we s- Again, what did Aristotle say? It's very important. "We are what we repeatedly," keyword, "do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act." Something that you do every once in a while. It's a habit, what you do all the time. And to really get ahead in any business, but specifically the insurance business, you have to stand out and you have to do things every single day. Like I, I like what he said, you know, you have your, your business, that's great, but you have to keep the business. You have to execute. You have to renew the business. If you don't take care of your clients, they won't become repeat clients. Yeah. All these things are major, major factors. So again, I always give you one piece of advice. Just start doing the little things every day that will add up to the big things. And you know [00:34:00] what those little things are that you need to be doing, that you need to be doing more of to make them a habit. So start doing them now.

Ben Markland: That's right. Little hinges swing big doors, right? So Marques, thanks for sharing your story with everyone. And, and our listeners, thanks for the insights. Before we wrap up, why don't you tell our audience how they can find you?

Marques Ogden: Sure. So we have a podcast called Get Authentic with Marques Ogden. You can check us out there. We're on Apple, we're on Spotify, we're on YouTube, and we love to have authentic conversations with authentic human beings. So check us out there. You can go to our website, marquesogden.com, or shoot me an email, marques@marquesogden.com. Would love to connect with you and have a conversation and hear more about you and where you're going in your business.

Ben Markland: All right. Well, thanks Marques. Thanks again. Thanks for all of our listeners for joining us for... I hope everyone enjoyed the [00:35:00] conversation. And as always, remember, simple solutions, real results. That's great leadership.